Jinn, Possession, and Mental Health - Part 1

In this engaging podcast, Ustadh Muhammad Tim Humble and Ustadh Abdulrahman Hassan delve into the intriguing topic of jinn possession. They explore its legitimacy within Islamic teachings, addressing common myths and misconceptions while providing insightful perspectives on the unseen world.

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The Hot Seat Podcast Is Jinn Possession Real Part 1 Ep 10
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Note: The following transcript was generated using AI and may contain inaccuracies.

Alhamdulillahi Rabbil Alameen, wassalatu wassalamu ala rasoolillahi salallahu alayhi wasalam amma ba'ad. Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.

And welcome to the first episode of season two of the Hot Seat Podcast. We've got a slightly different setup as you may see from your screen. And that's because, for the first time on the Hot Seat, I'm joined by not just one, but two very special guests.

I welcome back to the Hot Seat the familiar face of Ustad Abdur Rahman Hassan, and joining me for the first time is Ustad Tim Humble. Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu, how are you guys?

Guests: Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.

Ustad Tim, a special welcome to yourself, of course, the first time on the Hot Seat.

Ustad Tim: It's a pleasure to be here.

We've got a very special, very interesting topic to discuss today. It's one of those topics that many people have an interest in because it's related to the world of the unseen. So, we want to do a couple of episodes on this topic. The first one is going to be covering the topic of the jinn. And the second one is going to be talking about magic and the evil eye. These are things that you kind of hear growing up, you hear stories about these things. But what I really want to establish is, do these things have any legitimacy and proof in the religion of Islam? Or are they just mere fables that have been passed down from generation to generation?

So, we’re going to be talking about the jinn today. And let me start with a very simple question: What exactly is a jinn?

Ustad Abdur Rahman: Okay, I think before we start to answer that question, you mentioned a very, very valid point, and one that I think is really important for us to start with, which is the discussion about the unseen. And what we're talking about, and the question you posed about what are the jinn or who are the jinn, is a question which relates to the unseen.

And belief in the unseen is a fundamental part of the belief of a Muslim. In fact, if we look at Surah Al-Baqarah, in which Allah Azawajal says, الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ (Those who believe in the unseen), right at the very beginning of the Qur'an. And Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala then says about those people who believe in the unseen, أُولَٰئِكَ عَلَى هُدًى مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ (They are upon guidance from their Lord, and it is they who are successful).

So, one of the characteristics of the people who are guided and the people who are successful is that they believe in the unseen. And that means they believe in things that they can't see with their own eyes or they can't perceive with their senses. But they believe in them because Allah Azawajal and His Messenger ﷺ told us about them.

And also, just guessing about the unseen and, you know, sort of just randomly coming out with things and opinions—"he said" and "she said"—is not from the characteristics of the believer. In Surah Al-Kahf, Allah Azawajal criticized the people who guessed regarding the number of the people in the cave and the dog that was with them. And He said, رَجَمًا بِالْغَيْبِ (They were just randomly throwing things out there, just trying to guess the unseen).

So, it's really important to us as Muslims to take our knowledge of the unseen from the Qur'an and the Sunnah, and that we do so without guesses and without kind of weird and wonderful theories, but we take it from the text itself.

I believe that's extremely important. Sheikh, did you have? Yeah, mashaAllah. الحمد لله رب العالمين (All praise is due to Allah, Lord of the worlds), and الصلاة والسلام على أشرف الأنبياء والمرسلين سيدنا ونبينا محمد وعلى آله وصحبه واتابعين لهم بإحسان إلى يوم الدين (prayers and peace be upon the noblest of the prophets and messengers, our master and prophet Muhammad, and upon his family, companions, and those who follow them in goodness until the Day of Judgment). أما بعد (To proceed), building on what Sheikh Muhammad mentioned, the scholars state in their books, and Sheikh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah actually wrote a book on this issue, which is the reconciliation between revelation and reasoning. Here, رحمه الله (may Allah have mercy on him), he mentions, as he is a student of Ibn al-Qayyim in his book Kitab Sawā’ (The Book of Equalities), that this issue of علم الغيب (knowledge of the unseen) is something a person can never speak about except through textual evidence. This is where the عقل (intellect) doesn't have a say, because it can't speak about something it hasn't seen, and عقل (reasoning) only works in empirical things—things which you can observe and look at.

و لذلك ابن القيم رحمه الله (And therefore, Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allah have mercy on him) says in a couple of lines of poetry:

لا يستقل العقل دون هدايته بالوحي تفصيلا ولا تأصيلا (The intellect cannot guide you without the guidance of revelation, neither in details nor in foundations.)

قد طرف دون النور ليس بمدرك حتى يراه بكرة وأصيلا (It can only perceive what it sees, but not everything, until it sees the light clearly, both in the morning and evening.)

فإذا النور النبوة مثل نور الشمس للعين البصيرة فاتخذه دليلا (Thus, the light of prophecy is like the sunlight for the keen eye, so take it as your guide.)

In these lines, Ibn al-Qayyim is pointing out that لا يستقل العقل دون هدايته (the intellect cannot bring guidance to you independently). And we spoke about this in great detail in our previous episode on revelation versus reasoning. One of the things that عقل (reasoning) cannot talk about—and it's restricted, just like your eyesight is restricted—is that you can't see everything. If you look somewhere, your eyesight will come back and not be able to see everything in front of you. Similarly, عقل (reasoning) is also restricted in the things it can comprehend. Ibn al-Qayyim mentions three things that the عقل (reasoning) cannot address:

  1. عقل (reasoning) cannot guide you independently; you can't come to guidance just by using your عقل (intellect).
  2. عقل (reasoning) cannot reconcile between two parties of people who have a conflict and are differing.
  3. عقل (reasoning) cannot speak about the unseen.

So, we must take all matters of the unseen, such as الجن (jinn), ملائكة (angels), and other related matters, directly from the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Many sects and groups became misguided because they spoke about the unseen based on عقل (reasoning).

The second thing I wanted to mention, because we're going to be talking about the issue of possession and the jinn entering the human body, is the importance of believing in القضاء والقدر خيره وشره (divine decree and destiny, both its good and bad). This is one of the articles of our إيمان (faith). The Prophet ﷺ said in the famous حديث (hadith) of Jibreel when he was asked about إيمان (faith), he said: أن تؤمن بالله وملائكتي وكتبه ورسوله وليوم الآخر وتؤمن بالقدر خيره وشره (That you believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, the Last Day, and in القضاء والقدر (divine decree), both its good and bad).

Also, Allah Ta'ala says in the Qur'an: ما أصابكم من مصيبة في الأرض ولا في أنفسكم إلا في كتاب من قبل أن نبرأها إن ذلك على الله يسير (Whatever strikes you of disaster or hardship, either on the earth or within yourselves, is already written in the Book before We bring it into being. Indeed, that, for Allah, is easy.) This means that you are not afflicted with a calamity, and you don’t go through hardship or anything except that it was written in قضاء وقدر (divine decree and destiny). Allah has written it, سبحانه وتعالى (glorified and exalted is He).

The famous hadith states: وَعَلَمْ أَنَّ مَا أَصَابَكَ لَمْ يَكُنْ لِيُخْطِئَكَ وَمَا أَخْطَأَكَ لَمْ يَكُنْ لِيُصِيبَكَ (And know that what has afflicted you was never meant to miss you, and what missed you was never meant to afflict you.)

The third thing I wanted to add is that patience, when we are afflicted with these things, is very important. We should be patient and control our نفس (soul/self) from speaking that which is impermissible or not allowed. The Prophet ﷺ said in the حديث (hadith): عَجَبَ لِأَمْرِ الْمُؤْمِنِ (Fascination is in the affairs of the believer.)

إِنْ أَصَابَتْهُ صَرَّاءَ شَكَرًا فَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَهُ وَإِنْ أَصَابَتْهُ ضَرَّاءَ صَبَرًا فَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَهُ (If he is afflicted with good, he shows gratitude, and that is better for him. If he is afflicted with harm, he shows patience, and that is better for him.)

Ibn al-Qayyim, from this, said that the slave turns and tosses in two situations in his life: He’s either going through hardship, and what is required from him now is مَقَامُ الصَّبْر (the station of patience), or he is going through ease and happiness, and what is required from him here is gratitude. And Allah Ta'ala said: وَبَشِّرِ الصَّابِرِينَ الَّذِينَ إِذَا أَصَابَتُوا مُصِيبَةٌ قَالُوا إِنَّا لِلهِ وَإِنَّا إِلَيْهَ رَجْعُونَ (And give good tidings to the patient who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed, we belong to Allah, and indeed, to Him we will return.")

The sign that you are a patient person is that when you speak after a calamity, what comes out of your mouth is what is pleasing to Allah.

Now, I think that these three points serve as a good introduction before we define what jinn are. I also wanted to add to your point about reasoning and the عقل (intellect). Here, we're not just talking about the عقل (intellect) being the means by which you affirm something, but also the means by which someone rejects something. Both of those can be valid. Some people might use their intellect to affirm something as existing because it makes sense to them, and others might reject something because it makes sense to them. But ultimately, that's not a valid scale by which we can measure things Islamically, either in affirming or negating things.

Apologies, I digress a bit, but I thought it was important. Now, regarding the definition of the jinn, linguistically, Ibn Manzoor in Lisan al-Arab mentioned that the word جَنَّ (jinn) comes from the root word جَنَّ الشَّيْء يَجُنُّهُ جَنَّاً سَتَرَهُ (to cover or conceal something). He explained that anything that is concealed can be referred to as جَنَّ and thus the جن (jinn) are called جِن because they are hidden and concealed.

Later on, Ibn Manzoor said: وَبِهِ سُمِّيَ الْجِن لِسْتِتَارِهِمْ وَاخْتِفَائِهِمْ (And because of this, the jinn are named as such due to their concealment and hiding.)

In terms of a شرعي (legal or Islamic) definition, scholars aim for it to be جامع (comprehensive) and مانع (exclusive), but defining the jinn is not easy. One way to approach this is to refer to a few verses from the Qur'an that describe the jinn. For example, in Surah Al-Hijr, Allah عز و جل (Exalted is He) says: وَالْجَانَا خَلَقَنَاهُ مِنْ قَبْلٍ مِّن نَارِ السَّمُومِ (The jinn, We created them before, from smokeless fire.)

This tells us that the jinn were created from نار السموم (smokeless fire) before mankind. Thus, they are a creation of Allah عز و جل (Exalted is He) and were created before humans.

In Surah Al-Ahqaf, Allah عز و جل (Exalted is He) says: وَإِذْ صَرَفْنَا إِلَيْكَ نَفَرًا مِّنَ الْجِنِّ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقُرْآنِ (And when We directed to you a group of the jinn who listened to the Qur'an...)

When they heard it, they said to one another, "Be silent."

And when the recitation was finished, they went back to their people as warners. They said, "Our people, we have heard a book revealed after Musa, which gives truth to that which came before it. It guides to the truth and to a straight path. Our people, answer the caller of Allah and believe in Him. You will be forgiven for your sins and saved from a painful torment."

From this, we can derive certain important definitions related to the jinn. Firstly, they have an intellect (عقل) because they are commanded to answer, and they are told to listen and understand the Qur'an that is recited to them. So, they have an عقل (intellect), and they have an إرادة (will, choice). They are told, "أجيبوا" (answer), meaning they have the choice to answer or not. They are also commanded to follow the commands of Allah in a manner similar to that of human beings.

We can also take from the ayah in Surah Al-A'raf: إِنَّهُ يَرَاكُمْ هُوَ وَقَبِيلُهُ مِنْ حَيْثُ لَا تَرَوْنَهُمْ (Indeed, he and his tribe see you from where you do not see them.) This shows that the jinn are a creation that is hidden from our sight under normal circumstances.

Additionally, we can take from Surah Al-Jinn: وَأَنَّ مِنَّ الْمُسْلِمُونَ وَمِنَّ الْقَاسِطُونَ فَمَنْ أَسْلَمَ فَأُولَٰئِكَ تَحَرَّ الرَّشَدَ وَأَمَّ الْقَاسِطُونَ فَكَانُوا لِجَهَنَّمَ حَطَبَ (And among us are Muslims, and among us are others who are disbelievers or defiantly disobedient. Whoever accepts Islam, then they are the ones who have taken the right path. As for those disbelievers, they will be firewood for Jahannam.)

From this, we learn that among the jinn, there are both Muslims and disbelievers.

Finally, from the hadith of Aisha رضي الله عنها (may Allah be pleased with her), which is narrated in Sahih Muslim, the Messenger of Allah ﷺ said: خُلِقَتِ الْمَلَائِكَةُ مِنْ نُورٍ وَخُلِقَ الْجَانُّ مِنْ مَارِجٍ مِنْ نَارٍ وَخُلِقَ آدَمُ مِمَّا وُصِفَ لَكُمْ (The angels were created from light, the jinn from smokeless fire, and Adam from what has been described to you.)

This shows that the jinn are distinct from the angels and from human beings.

I think that probably covers most of the technical definitions of the jinn, inshaAllah. Sheikh, do you have any additional points or thoughts?

Now, as Sheikh mentioned, the root word for جِن is جَنَّ (to cover or conceal), and in the Arabic language, this word means something that is covered and hidden. For this reason, a person who is insane is called مجنون (mad), because their عقل (intellect) is covered or hidden.

The word جنة (paradise) comes from the same root, and it is said that the word جنة is used because of the jinn and the نون (the letter "n") because there are many trees around it, which conceal what is inside. This is why the word is used. Similarly, the mother's womb is also referred to as أجنة (plural of جنين) in the Qur'an, as in the phrase في بطون أمهاتكم (in the wombs of your mothers). The word has this meaning of being hidden or concealed.

Sheikh also mentioned the ayah: يَا بَنِ آدَمَ لَا يَفْتِنَنَّكُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ كَمَا أَخْرَجَ أَبَوَيْكُمْ مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ يَنزِعُ عَنْهُمَا لِبَاسَهُمَا لِيُرِيَهُمَا سَوْآتِهِمَا إِنَّهُ يَرَاكُمْ هُوَ وَقَبِيلُهُ مِنْ حَيْثُ لَا تَعْلَوْنَهُمْ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَا شَيَاطِينَ أَوْلِيَاءَ لِلَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ (O children of Adam, let not Satan tempt you as he caused your parents to be removed from Paradise, stripping them of their clothing to show them their private parts. Indeed, he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you do not see them. Indeed, We have made the devils allies for those who do not believe.)

This verse shows that the devils (shayatin) can see us while we cannot see them.I came across a beneficial point mentioned by Ibn Al-Qayyim, who states that we seek refuge in Allah تبارك وتعالى from the angels because they are a creation we cannot see, and we seek refuge in the One they cannot see, which is Allah سبحانه وتعالى. Also, the jinn were created before us; they came into existence before we did. Allah تبارك وتعالى says: وَالْجَنَّ قَلَقَنَاهُ مِنْ قَبْلُ مِنْ نَارِ السَّمُومِ (And the jinn, We created them before from scorching fire). This refers to the creation of the jinn before the children of Adam came into existence.

The Hadith of Aisha (RA) mentions that the Prophet ﷺ said: خُلِقَتِ الْمَلَائِكَةُ مِنْ نُورٍ وَخُلِقَتِ الْجَنُّ مِنْ نَارِ السَّمُومِ وَخُلِقَ آدَمٍ مِمَّا وُصِفَ لَكُمْ (The angels were created from light, the jinn from smokeless fire, and Adam from what has been described to you). The jinn are made from smokeless fire, and some scholars have discussed the issue of whether the jinn come from Iblis, since we came from Adam ﷺ, who is our father. They asked whether the jinn come from Shaytan Iblis. What seems apparent from the Qur'an is that Iblis is not the father of the jinn.

The verse وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ سُجُودُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ كَانَ مِنَ الْجِنِّ فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّهِ (And when We said to the angels, 'Prostrate to Adam,' and they prostrated, except for Iblis; he was of the jinn and disobeyed the command of his Lord) indicates that Iblis is from the jinn. The word "مِن" here means "from", meaning Iblis is part of the jinn.

Allah also mentions in the verse: وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ سُجُودُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ كَانَ مِنَ الْجِنِّ فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّهِ أَفَتَتْخِذُونَهُ وَذُرِّيَّتَهُ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِنْ دُونِ وَهُمْ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ بِئْسَ لِلظَّالِمِينَ بَدَلًا (And when We said to the angels, 'Prostrate to Adam,' and they prostrated, except for Iblis, who was from the jinn and disobeyed the command of his Lord. Will you then take him and his offspring as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange). This confirms that Iblis has offspring, and they get married and have children, just as humans do. Among the jinn are both Muslims and non-Muslims, righteous and sinful ones. Allah says: وَأَنَّا مِنَّا الْمُسْلِمُونَ وَمِنَّا الْقَاصِطُونَ فَمَنْ أَسْلَمَ فَأُولَئِكَ تَحَرَّوا رَشَدًا وَأَنَّا مِنَّا الصَّالِحُونَ وَمِنَّا دُونَ ذَلِكَ كُنَّا طَرَائِقَ قِدَدًا (And among us are Muslims, and among us are the wrongdoers. So whoever has submitted [to Allah] — those have sought out the right course. And among us are the righteous, and among us are others besides that who are divergent).

They are also among them some dimwitted ones: وَأَنَّهُ كَانَ يَقُولُ السَّفِيهُنَا عَلَى اللَّهِ شَطَطًا (And indeed, there were those who were foolish among us who spoke about Allah in ignorance). Among them are those who listen to the Qur'an, as mentioned in the verse: وَإِذْ سَرَفْنَا إِلَيْكَ نَفَرًا مِنَ الْجِنِّ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقُرْآنَ فَلَمَّا حَذَرُوهُ قَالُوا أَنْسِتُوا فَلَمَّا قُضِيَ وَلَّوْا إِلَىٰ قَوْمِهِمْ مُنذِرِينَ قَالُوا يَا قَوْمَنَا إِنَّا سَمِعْنَا كِتَابًا أُنْزِلَ مِنْ بَعْدِ مُوسَى مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ دِي إِلَى الْحَقِّ وَإِلَىٰ طَرِيقِ مُسْتَقِيمٍ (And when We directed to you a group of the jinn, listening to the Qur'an, and when they were in its presence, they said, 'Listen quietly.' And when it was concluded, they went back to their people as warners, saying, 'O our people, indeed we have heard a Scripture revealed after Moses, confirming what was before it, guiding to the truth and to a straight path').

So they are not only listening to the Qur'an, pondering over it, and contemplating it, but they are also Du'aatun ila Allah ( دعوتٌ إلى الله), calling others to Allah. They go and spread the message of Islam. This is comprehensive. There are three things that the jinn have, which is why they were mukallaf (مكلف), meaning why they were burdened and requested to worship Allah. Allah says: وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ (And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me). And in another verse, Allah says: يَا مَعْشَرَ الْجِنِّ وَالْإِنسِ أَلَمْ يَأْتِكُمْ رُسُلٌ مِّنْكُمْ يَقُصُّونَ عَلَيْكُمْ آيَاتِي وَيُنذِرُونَكُمْ لِقَاءَ يَوْمِكُمْ هَذَا قَالُوا شَهِدْنَا عَلَىٰ أَنفُسِنَا وَغَرَّتْهُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا وَشَهِدُوا عَلَىٰ أَنفُسِهِمْ أَنَّهُمْ كَانُوا كَافِرِينَ (O assembly of jinn and mankind, did not there come to you messengers from among yourselves, relating to you My verses and warning you of the meeting of this Day? They will say, 'We bear witness against ourselves,' and they were deluded by the life of this world, and they will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers).

So they have been mukallaf based on these two verses. The scholars say that they are mukallaf because three things are present in them. The Sheikh mentioned it: they have qudra (ability), irada (will), and aql (intellect). They have the ability to act, the will to choose, and the intellect to think and understand. This makes them mukallaf (accountable).

The last point I want to mention is that the jinn are actually considered to be ranked lower than Adam. What is the proof of this?

And the evidence that scholars mentioned is the statement of Allah: We honored the children of Adam. This shows that we are honored more than the jinn. Another verse clearly shows that the jinn originally used to respect us and look up to us. We were great in their eyes until a group of humans went and sought refuge and help from the jinn. Once they did that, Allah says: "Now this made them feel that they mean something, that they have some value and worth." So all these verses and hadiths really establish not only the meaning of what a jinn is but also prove that jinn actually do exist. They are a creation referred to as jinn (جين) in the Qur'an, and something a Muslim who believes in Allah and the Day of Judgment cannot reject, to be honest. For sure, I think that's a really comprehensive summary of who the jinn are and some of their attributes.

Just before we move on, I want to mention something that you mentioned earlier. You mentioned the verse where in the Qur'an it clearly states that there's often a bit of confusion here, and some people believe that Iblis (إبليس) is actually a fallen angel, for example. The reason they believe that is because at the start of the verse, Allah addresses the angels: وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ (When We said to the angels), أُسْجُدُوا لِآدَمٍ (Prostrate to Adam). It almost seems like Iblis is being included within that group of angels. So I said to him: Is there any possibility that maybe the word jinn (جِنّ) used in this verse for Shaytan (شَيْطَان) is a linguistic definition, meaning he's hidden just like the rest of the angels are hidden from us, and that he's actually an angel?

So there are a lot of ways that we can differentiate between the jinn and the angels. One way we mentioned before is in the hadith of Aisha (رضي الله عنها), which is found in Sahih Muslim. In it, the Prophet ﷺ spoke about three different categories: the angels created from light, the jinn created from smokeless fire, and Adam created from what has been described to you. So, first of all, this gives us a distinction.

But I have a couple of other things to think about. First of all, the angels themselves differentiate. Allah (عز وجل) says: وَيَوْمَ يَحْشُرُهُمْ جَمِيعًا (And on the Day when He will gather them all together), ثُمَّ يَقُولُ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ (Then He will say to the angels): أَهَا أُولَٰئِ إِيَّاكُمْ كَانُوا يَعْبُدُونَ (Were you the ones that these people used to worship?). The angels will say: سُبْحَانَكَ أَنْتَ وَلِيُّنَا مِنْ دُونِهِمْ (Exalted are You! You are our Wali [Protector] rather than them), بَلْ كَانُوا يَعْبُدُونَ الْجِنِّ (Rather, they used to worship the jinn), أَكْثَرُهُمْ بِهِمْ مُؤْمِنُونَ (Most of them were believers in the jinn, not in the angels).

So the angels themselves differentiate. The fact that the jinn have children is also mentioned in the verse from Surah at-Takaffur: أَفَتَتْخِذُونَهُ وَذُرُّيَّتَهُ أَوْلِيَا (Do you take him and his offspring as allies?). And the fact that Allah (سبحانه وتعالى) says: وَلَقَدْ ذَرَأْنَا لِجَهَنَّمَ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ الْجِنِّ وَالْإِنسِ (And indeed, We have prepared Hell for many of the jinn and mankind), which is not true for the angels, as the angels do not disobey Allah عز و جل. So here we have many, many evidences.

We also have something else that we can look at, which is that generally in Arabic, when we use an exception — for example, when we say "except" in English, in Arabic we could use illa (إلا). There are other ways we could use it as well. In Arabic, there is something known as المستثنى المنخطئ (Al-Mustathnaa' al-Munkhati’), a broken exception, an exception that is broken off from the original thing you're speaking about. It is perfectly common in Arabic to say something like: All of the students left except the teacher or All of the players left except the fan. The examples of this in the Arabic language are very frequent.

So when we put all these things together and see the difference between the angels and the jinn, we see the hadith of Aisha, and we observe the existence in Arabic of having an exception that doesn’t come from the original thing, it becomes quite clear that the angels here are not the jinn, and the jinn are not the angels.

And where does Iblis fit in? It's quite clear, based on the direct text, that he falls into the camp of the jinn. He was from among the jinn. The fact that he has offspring and so on makes him different. The fact that he was among the angels and was honored to be able to spend time with them indicates that he was covered by that command when the angels were told to prostrate. He, among them, was included in that command. And yet, فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّهِ (But he defied the command of his Lord).

Even SubhanAllah, when you look at the scholars, they mention that humans are stationed in the middle. Some scholars say that when a human follows Allah’s commandments and listens to what Allah tells him to do, he has now attained a level and station of the angels.

And so, which is يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ وَأَهْلِيكُمْ نَارًا وَقُودُهَا النَّاسُ وَالْحِجَارَةُ عَلَيْهَا مَلَائِكَةٌ غِلَاظٌ شِدَادٌ لَا يَعْصُونَ اللَّهَ مَا أَمَرَهُمْ وَيَفْعَلُونَ مَا يُؤْمَرُونَ

 (Say: 'O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones, over which are angels harsh and severe. They do not disobey Allah in what He commands them, but do what they are commanded').

Even in another ayah, Allah says, يُسَبِّحُونَ اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ لَا يَفْطُرُونَ (They glorify Him night and day, and they do not tire). When Allah talks about the angels, He mentions that they are very obedient. So this is a trait that you've taken on. And so, you are with them. But then, when the slave becomes very bad and evil, and they say he goes even below the animal, this trait, which is Iblis being with the angels, they said that it was because of his righteous actions and his good doings. And it’s not just unique for him; they say this is something even the believer can receive, not literally being with them now, but being of that station. That you are a person who is obeying and listening to Allah.

Okay, I now want to move the discussion onto the main topic, which is: What is the extent to which the jinn can interact with humans?

The concept that the jinn can interact with human beings is one that is well-established within the Qur'an, and particularly just to take a general sense, because here I don't want to necessarily go into the topic of possession at this moment in time. I just want to talk about the general interaction.

In Surah Al-An'am, Allah Azza wa Jal said, وَيَوْمَ يَحْشُرُهُمْ جَمِيعًا يَا مَعْشَرَ الْجِنِّ قَدْ اسْتَكْثَرْتُمْ مِنَ الْإِنسِ وَقَالَ أَوْلِيَاؤُهُمْ مِنَ الْإِنسِ رَبَّنَا اَسْتَمْتَعَ بِبَعْضُنَا بِبَعْضٍ وَبَلَغْنَا أَجَلَنَا الَّذِي أَجَّلْتَ لَنَا (And the Day when He will gather them all together, [He will say], 'O assembly of jinn, you have frequently interacted with mankind, and their allies among mankind will say, "Our Lord, some of us have benefited from others, and we have reached the term You appointed for us."'). Until the end of the ayah.

Allah Azza wa Jal said: "On the day when He will gather them all together and say, 'O group of jinn, you have frequently interacted with mankind.' This is something of frequent interaction with mankind, a constant interaction. But their allies from among the men will say: 'Our Lord, we each of us took advantage of the other, and we have reached this appointed time that You have appointed for us.' Allah Azza wa Jal will say, 'The fire is your abode, to abide therein eternally.'"

So here, we see clearly that there were men who sought a benefit and sought to take advantage of the jinn, and there were jinn that sought to take advantage of men. And so this interaction exists. And in fact, this interaction—particularly the interaction between Shaytan and Bani Adam—is something that is mentioned in so many places in the Qur'an. But this is just a really clear example of how each one is interacting with the other.

Also, the famous ayah where the jinn say, “help us, do this for us,” and this is when the jinn then became arrogant and full of themselves and started to realize, “Oh, okay, we actually are valuable. The humans need us.”

Additionally, the ayah that the Sheikh brought up: Some of the scholars actually use that ayah to say that the jinn and the ins (humans) can actually get married because the ayah can involve marriage. And many ulama have stated that, including Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Hajar al-Haytami, and many other great scholars. Some have even transmitted a consensus that this can happen.

The interaction between humans and jinn can be of good interaction, and it can also be of evil interaction.

An example of a good interaction is that the Prophet ﷺ said: "There is not a person except that he has a qareen (companion) from the jinn." And this qareen whispers to the person to do evil, to go against Allah's command, to do this and that. And also, the Sahabah asked, "O Rasulullah, even you?" And he said, "Even me."

He said, "As for me, Allah ﷻ aided me against him, and he took Islam. And he does not command except that which is good."

So that’s another interaction. Also, another interaction is the unique interaction that Nabiullah Sulaiman had with the jinn.

Nabiullah Sulaiman, Allah ﷻ gave him a unique power. Allah ﷻ mentions in the Qur'an that Nabiullah Sulaiman had control over the jinn. They used to work for him to an extent, a high level, where they used to even build constructions for him, and some of them used to go into the ocean and get jewels and gems from the earth for him. And he also was able to punish them. Allah ﷻ gave him the power to punish those who would go against his command and make them suffer for their wrongdoings.

So there was that interaction that Sulaiman had and the dealings that Allah ﷻ gave him.

 On the topic Shaykh mentioned, actually, we've twice come to this ayah in Surah Al-Jinn. I'll quote you from Ikrimah, who said: "The jinn used to run away or used to be scared of men, like men are scared of them, or even worse." And when the men would come to a valley, the jinn would run away. The leader of those men would say, "We seek refuge with the Master of the people in this valley." They said, "We see these people are scared of us, like we’re scared of them." And they came close to men, and then they made them become insane and they made them suffer madness and insanity. And then he said, "He said..." This was narrated by Ibn Abi Hatim in his Tafsir from Ikrimah.

So this is just an example of how this ayah indicates that interaction, and you see that interaction between the men and the jinn even in this ayah.

Okay, let’s talk about a specific part of that interaction, namely jinn possession, which the majority of the rest of the episode is going to revolve around. Is it possible for a jinn to possess a human being? Allah Azzawajal (Allah, the Almighty) said in Surah Al-Baqarah: "Those who devour usury (Riba) will not stand except like the one who has been touched by Satan, causing him to become insane because of [his] touch."

Now, whenever we look at an ayah, of course, we look at the tafsir (interpretation), and we look at the tafsir of the early generations. I just would like to quote you only from Tafsir At-Tabari to start with.

So, Imam At-Tabari, we know he died 310 years after the Hijrah, and he's quoting from the people before that. He said, "They will not stand in the hereafter from their graves..." And then he said, "The shaytan (Satan) causes him to become insane in the dunya (this world)." He is the one who strangles that person and makes them suffer from a fit, making them faint because of the shaytan's touch. Then he quotes from Ibn Abbas that Ibn Abbas said that the person who will devour usury will be resurrected insane, and he will be like he has been pressured or strangled by the shaytan. And from Qatada, he said, "It’s the insanity that the shaytan makes the person go insane." He quoted from many, many others. In fact, At-Tabari didn’t mention any other opinion for this ayah except that this ayah refers to the shaytan in the dunya, making a person suffer from insanity and epileptic fits, making them faint, and causing them to become insane.

I suppose, so what we spoke about at the beginning regarding Aql (intellect) and how it can’t be used when you can’t see things, but I can see things in the dunya, and I do see a lot of people taking Riba (usury), being involved in interest. It’s very widespread, and they don’t stand as if they’re insane or anything like that. They’re just perfectly normal human beings, but they’re just engaging in the sin of interest. So, I’m not sure how this can be related to the dunya. I can’t really see that in front of me, to be honest with you.

So here, the ayah, as I quoted from At-Tabari, he said: "The insanity caused by the shaytan is something that happens in the dunya, but this punishment for the people of Riba is Yawm al-Qiyamah (the Day of Judgment)." And he quoted from Ibn Abbas. So the ayah is split over two things. The punishment which takes place for the one who devours Riba, on the Day of Judgment, is a punishment comparable to the insanity caused by the shaytan in the dunya. That’s what At-Tabari said, and he quoted that from Ibn Abbas and from Qatada. This is referring to the dunya in terms of the shaytan and the possession, but the akhirah (hereafter) in terms of the punishment for devouring Riba.

So it’s not a direct proof in and of itself. It’s more the speech of men who have said that this particular ayah, which is talking about the hereafter—because the ayah is quite clear that this takes place in the hereafter—is referring to something that happens in the dunya.

This is really kind of what the Mufassireen (scholars of tafsir) are saying about this particular ayah.

Do you have like a direct proof in the Quran?

The ayah itself is clear in that way. That’s why the Sheikh said that the Mufassireen (scholars of Tafsir) – not one of them has understood it to be anything else. That’s what it is, that’s what the ayah means. So, the ayah is talking about the Yawm al-Qiyamah (Day of Judgment). The ayah is saying, the first portion of the ayah is saying, "الَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ الرِّبَا" (Those who devour usury) "لَا يَقُومُونَ" (they will not stand), the Day of Judgment, except like the one who, when he is possessed, is unable to stand because of having, like a seizure. It’s the same way that it’s going to be for the one who eats Riba on the Day of Judgment. So, the people in this world, they see that when a person is possessed, the way he is, the comparison here is that for the way it’s going to be for the one who eats Riba. So, we can’t – the punishment for the one who is eating Riba now – we haven’t seen it. That’s going to be on the Day of Judgment, but what we do see, the ayah is telling us, is what you guys see in this world. The way that when a jinn enters a person’s body, because the word "مَسَّ" (touch) is used, which is the touching of the shaytan (Satan), or the entering or the possession of the shaytan into the person, this is the "تَشْبِيه" (comparison) being used in the ayah.

Do you have any additional proofs in the Quran that maybe... because for me, it still seems and appears like that’s something that takes place in the Akhirah (Hereafter) on the Day of Judgment. This possession that takes place on the Day of Judgment, and the comparison to the dunya (worldly life) is obviously what the opinions of the Mufassireen have brought forward. But it doesn’t really clearly mention in those words that this takes place in the dunya. I think, first of all, just to go back a second, I really want to emphasize once again that Imam At-Tabari said "يَتَخَبَّرُ بِالشَّيْطَانِ فِي الدُّنْيَا" (The shaytan causes him to become insane in the dunya). I didn’t put that in. Imam At-Tabari, 310 years after the Hijrah, quoting from the likes of Ibn Abbas, from Qatada, from the great scholars of Tafsir, and he doesn’t find anyone who had an opinion other than that. To the point that Ibn Juzay Al-Kalbi, in At-Tasheel, he says, "أَجْمَعَ الْمُفَسِّرُونَ" (Scholars of Tafsir have consensus on this issue), and likewise, not only that, but there are others who narrated the consensus or narrated a similar opinion: Al-Baghawi, Ibn Al-Jawzi, Al-Qurtubi, Abu Hayyan, Ibn Kathir, Al-Alusi, Ibn Ashur, all of them said the exact same thing. So, this is really the way we understand this ayah. The language is clear: "يَتَخَبَّرُ" (He is touched, or affected), this is something which is very, very clear in the Arabic language. It’s very clear that it’s referring to the "جُنون" (insanity), the insanity which comes from and the "صَرَع" (fits), the effects like fainting and so on that come from jinn possession. This is the opinion of all of the scholars of Tafsir. There isn’t anyone who said anything different.

But we do have other ayat from the Quran which support this and indicate this, and from them, one of the ones that is mentioned within some of the books of Tafsir in the ayah in Surah Al-Baqarah, that some of them referred to, and among them, Ibn Kathir, who referred to the ayah in Surah Al-A'raf at the end of Surah Al-A'raf: "إِنَّ الَّذِينَ اتَّقَوْا إِذَا مَسَّهُمْ طَائِفٌ مِّنَ الشَّيْطَانِ تَذَكَّرُوا فَإِذَا هُمْ مُبْصِرُونَ" (Indeed, those who fear Allah, when a ta’if (whispering) from the shaytan touches them, they remember, and then they can see clearly).

I’m going to quote what Ibn Kathir said about this word, "تَذَكَّرُوا" (they remember): "either they remember Allah or they remember that this is from the shaytan, فَإِذَا هُمْ مُبْصِرُونَ" (and then they can see clearly). Ibn Kathir, he said regarding this: "وَمِنْهُمْ مَن فَسَّرَ ذَلِكَ بِالْغَضَبِ وَمِنْهُمْ مَن فَسَّرَهُ بِمَسِّ الشَّيْطَانِ بِالصَّرْعِ وَنَحْوِهِ" (Some of them translated this ta’if as the anger caused by the shaytan, and others said that it is the touch of the shaytan that causes epilepsy and the likes of it). We’ve already quoted from Surah Al-Jinn, and that Ikrimah said about them that they cause, as we said from the quote of Ikrimah: "فَأَصَابُوهُمْ بِالْخَبَرِ وَالْجُنُونِ" (They cause them to become insane).

Likewise, we can add also to that in Surah Al-Mu'minun: "وَقُلْ رَبِّ أَعُوذُ بِكَ مِنْ هَمَزَاتِ الشَّيَاطِينَ وَأَعُوذُ بِكَ رَبِّ أَنْ يَحْضُرُونِ" (Say: My Lord, I seek refuge in You from the whispers of the shayatin, and I seek refuge in You, my Lord, from their presence). It means to put pressure and to strangle. So also, we have in this, and likewise, we have also Ibn Jarir narrates from Abdur Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam that he said about "هَمَزَاتِ الشَّيَاطِينَ" (the whispers of the shayatin): "That it’s when the shaytan strangles and puts pressure upon the person." So these are all ayat which indicate or which some of the scholars of Tafsir said about them that they indicate this, even if the ayah in Surah Al-Baqarah is as clear as like the sun in the middle of the day. But these ayat also provide additional support to that concept.

Did you have any other ayat or any other points to add to that?

The Shaykh mentioned that Ayat and many more Ayat can be used. So, what I'm getting so far, I think it's great that there are certain Ayat in the Quran that have certainly been interpreted by great men. Great men they were, to mean this—that the possession takes place in the dunya. But I think what's difficult for me is that, regardless of the interpretation of men, there's almost a clear-cut verse from Allah, from the speech of Allah Himself, that almost refutes this concept in totality. And that is the Ayah in Surah Ibrahim, Ayah number 22, where Allah is talking about the Day of Judgment when all the affairs have been decided. Shaytan clearly says to the people:

وَمَا كَانَ لِيَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِن سُلْطَانٍ إِلَّا أَن دَعَوْتُكُمْ فَاسْتَجَبْتُمْ لِي "And I had no authority over you except that I invited you, and you responded to me." (Ibrahim 14:22)

Does this Ayah not indicate that the maximum of Shaytan's powers, and therefore any jinn's powers, is to whisper to us? Is to invite us? Shaykh, do you want to start with this one? No, no, no. No, you start, and then I’ll see what I can say later.

I’m going to start with an example here because I'm trying to understand what point you're trying to bring across right here. We’re going to take someone—just for the purpose of this conversation—the jinn possession exists, and a person becomes possessed by Shaytan. That person is going to be in one of two cases. Either that person is somewhat in control of their actions, to a greater or lesser degree, in which case on Yawmul Qiyamah (the Day of Judgment), they are going to answer only for their actions. They are not going to answer for the actions of Shaytan. They are only going to answer for what مَا اسْتَجَبْتُمْ إِلَّا أَن دَعُوتُكُمْ فَاسْتَجَبْتُمْ لِي (Whatever you answered, the Shaytan’s invitation— that’s what you’ll be accountable for).

If the Shaytan possesses a person and that person reaches the level of insanity, then surely now we have a hadith—the hadith of Aisha and in some narrations, the hadith of Ali bin Abi Talib (may Allah be pleased with him)—رُفِعَ الْقَلَبَ (The pen is raised from three people, including the insane person, until that person regains their sanity).

So here, I'm not really understanding, I'll be honest with you, where the problem is with this sultan (authority) because, to me, Yawmul Qiyamah you’re only going to be taken to account for the things which were within your responsibility. But that doesn't negate the potential for the Shaytan to afflict a person. That was something that just came to my mind. I don't know if you had... I'll make one more point only, because this also came to my mind. This is not the only Ayah which mentions that the Shaytan doesn’t have sultan over the people of the believers. And in Surah Al-Hijr, Allah عز وجل (Exalted is He) said:

إِنَّ عِبَادِي لَيْسَ لَكَ عَلَيْهِمْ سُلْطَانٌ إِلَّا مَنِ اتَّبَعَكَ مِنَ الْغَاوِيمُ "Indeed, My servants—you will have no authority over them, except those who follow you from the deviators." (15:42)

And in Surah An-Nahl:

إِنَّمَا سُلْطَانُهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ يَتَوَلَّوْنَهُ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ بِهِ مُشْرِكُونَ "Indeed, his authority is over those who take him as an ally and those who associate others with Allah." (16:100)

His sultan (authority) is only for those people who have taken him as an ally and those people who have associated him in worship with Allah.

Here, I also want to understand something I didn’t understand: if we say that the Shaytan doesn’t have sultan over the believers, then by this principle, should we not therefore say, if we were to follow this principle to its logical conclusion, that the Shaytan can possess the disbeliever and the fasiq (the sinful) but he can't possess the believer? And yet that's also, to me, those two points don't... This argument, it doesn’t stand up. And that's a very strong point the Shaykh brought.The last point, especially picking on that one, the Shaykh mentioned that the word sultan came with both negation and affirmation. So the qa'ida is وَالْجَمْعُ وَاجِبُ مَتَى مَا أَمْكَنَ إِلَّا فَلِلْأَخِينِ نَصْغٍ بُيِّنَةٍ (The principle is that reconciliation is necessary when possible, unless there is a clear contradiction between two evidences). With two textual evidences seemingly contradicting each other, you put an Ayah where it says:

وَقَالَ الشَّيْطَانُ لَمَا قُضِيَ الْأَمْرُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَعَدَكُمْ وَعَدَ الْحَقِّ وَوَعَدْتُكُمْ فَأَخْلَفْتُكُمْ وَمَا كَانَ لِي عَلَيْكُمْ مِنْ سُلْطَانٍ إِلَّا أَنْ دَعُوتُكُمْ فَاسْتَجَبْتُمْ لِي فَلَا تَلُومُونِي وَلُومُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ مَا أَنَا بِمُسْرِقِكُمْ وَمَا أَنَا بِمُشْرِكِكُمْ إِنِّي كَفَرْتُ بِمَا شَرَكْتُمْ وَمِنْ قَبْلُ إِنَّ الظَّالِمِينَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عَلِيمٌ "And Satan will say when the matter has been concluded: 'Indeed, Allah has promised you the promise of truth, and I promised you, but I betrayed you. I had no authority over you except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me, but blame yourselves. I cannot avert the punishment from you, nor can you avert it from me. Indeed, I deny your association of me with Allah. Indeed, for the wrongdoers is a painful punishment.'" (14:22)

And the Shaykh has also brought this verse:

لَيْسَ لَكَ عَلَيْهِمْ سُلْطَانٌ إِلَّا مَنْ اتَّبَعَكَ مِنَ الْغَاوِينَ "Indeed, you will have no authority over them, except those who follow you from the deviators." (15:42)

Here the Shaytan is saying that he has no sultan over them, while in the other verse, Allah says that the Shaytan has authority only over those who follow him. So we need to reconcile between these two verses.

Allah says in Surah An-Nisa, فَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلافًا كَثِيرًا "Do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from anyone other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction." (4:82)

So, we know there is no contradiction in the Qur'an. We need to reconcile between it. What Iblis is negating here is the sultan where he is trying to say that he took away from you your entire ability. In other words, he took away your ability to think, to choose. The three things we mentioned for the jinn: Qudrah (power), Irada (will), and Aql (intellect). He is trying to say to them, "I never stripped you of those three. You had intellect (Aql), you could think, you also had the ability to choose (Irada), and you had the power (Qudrah)."

That's what Iblis is trying to say—that you had all these faculties. So, when a person is possessed and something is said to them or the Qur'an is recited on them, if you ask them later, "Did you know what was happening?" generally, they can tell you what took place or vaguely what was happening. It doesn't mean that the person would do things that they don't know are happening.

So, are we saying that it can never happen to the point where Shaytan can totally take over someone to the point where they lose everything? Or are we saying that if that does happen, they don’t fall under this Ayah because they are not held accountable for those actions? I think it is safer to say that, in fact, we can reconcile the two points and say that it doesn't usually happen. And if it were to happen, we would say that the Shaytan takes complete control over the person to the point where they don't know where they were or what they did. In that case, the person is no different from someone who suffers from certain psychological illnesses that cause them to lose control of what they are doing. The person would not be held accountable for that loss of control.

And in reality, what can we say? Can we not say that they will be held accountable only to the extent that they had control? That’s what’s understood from the hadith:

رُفِعَ الْقَلَمُ عَنْ ثَلَاثٍ وَعَنِ الْمَجْنُونِ حَتَّى يَبْرَأْ "The pen is lifted from three: from the insane person until they regain their sanity..." (Sunan Abu Dawood)

So ultimately, a person is only going to be held accountable on the Day of Resurrection, and their paradise or hellfire is dependent upon their own decisions and choices, not the compulsion of the Shaytan. The Shaytan does not literally force them into actions that put them into Jahannam (hell). Rather, if the Shaytan forces them into something by way of possession, they won’t be held accountable for those actions, or they will only be held accountable for how much they followed, cooperated, or listened.

This seems like a nice way to reconcile both perspectives and brings all the evidences together.


Now, on Season 1, Episode 5, we talked about the authority of the Sunnah and the Hadiths in religion. So, there is another hadith that I want to mention on this topic. This again appears to me, at face value, that the restriction applied to Shaytan is waswasa (whispering). This is basically his limit. He can't go further than that. There’s a hadith where a companion came to the Prophet ﷺ, and he mentioned that he was having thoughts about Allah that he didn't want to have. The Prophet ﷺ replied by saying:

الحمد لله الذي رَدَّ كَيْدَهُ إِلَى الْوَسْوَسَةِ "Praise be to Allah, who has returned his plot to whispering."

This is referring to the plan of Shaytan. The Prophet ﷺ mentions praise to Allah for restricting Shaytan’s plot to whispering. Again, at face value, this seems like the restriction of Shaytan’s ability is to whispering and waswasa. To be honest, I don’t see how this relates to possession. The evidence for that is that the man's situation could have just been waswasa and not possession by Shaytan. Does this hadith not seem like a general statement? الحمد لله الذي رَدَّ كَيْدَهُ (Praise be to Allah for returning his plot)?

It seems like a general statement, is it not? No, it means what Shaytan has whispered to you and what he has plotted. Alhamdulillah, Allah Ta’ala returned it. That’s what the hadith mentions—it doesn’t say that this is all that Shaytan can do or this is the extent of his ability. That’s comparing apples to oranges.

But regarding the topic of the hadit, I think that when we look at other ahadith, this becomes extremely clear. And indeed, there are probably too many ahadith to even mention in this podcast from the huge number of ahadith, but I'm just going to start. I'll put one in there just to get us going, insha'Allah ta'ala.

So we'll start with the hadith narrated from Ata' bin Rabah from Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with them) regarding the woman. She was known as Umm Zufal, if I'm not mistaken. She was a woman who suffered from epilepsy. She said to the Prophet ﷺ, "إِنِّي أُسْرَعُ وَإِنِّي أَتَكَشَّفُ فَدْعُوا اللَّهَ لِي" (I have epileptic fits, and I become unclothed, so make dua for me).

The Prophet ﷺ said to her, "إِنْ شِئْتِ صَبَرْتِ وَلَكِ الْجَنَّةِ" (If you wish, you can be patient, and you'll have Jannah). "وَإِنْ شِئْتِ دَعَوْتُ اللَّهَ أَنْ يُعَافِيكِ" (And if you wish, I will ask Allah to cure you). She said, "I will be patient."

In a narration from this hadith, the hadith is sahih in Bukhari and Muslim, but there's a narration from Bazar, which is also from Ibn Abbas, the same hadith, in which she said, "إِنِّي أَخَافُ الْخَبِيثَ أَنْ يُجَرِّدَنِي" (I am scared that this filthy soul [Shaytan] will strip me). And Al-Hafidh Ibn Hajar, he says here, "الخبيث هو الشيطان" (The "Khabeeth" is the Shaytan).

He also commented on this, saying, "كان بِأُم زُفَر" (The affliction with Umm Zufar) "كان من صَرْعِ الجِن لا من صَرْعِ الخَلْق" (It was from the possession of the jinn, not from the bodily functions caused by creation). This is found in Fath al-Bari.

So, here, this is just one hadith, and the hadith is very well-known about a woman who had epileptic fits, and it appears that her fits were being caused by the jinn.

Shaykh, I want to mention something. Al-Hafidh Ibn Hajar is saying that the word "Khabeeth" refers to the jinn. It's actually taken from the hadith of the Prophet ﷺ: "اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي أَعُوذُ بِكَ مِنَ الْخُبْثِ وَالْخَبَائِثِ" (O Allah, I seek refuge with You from the malevolent jinn and the evil ones). So it's not just the opinion of Ibn Hajar; it's his evidence.

I do also want to ask you a question. We're starting with a well-known narration of a very well-known hadith, and one of the reasons it’s very well-known is because it’s in Bukhari and Muslim. Yet, you have to go to another source outside of that to prove your point, and you can't bring it from Bukhari and Muslim because neither of them mentioned this particular word that you want to prove your point. Did they forget it? Did they get it wrong? Or why is that?

First of all, we have to understand the methodology of Imam Al-Bukhari. Imam Al-Bukhari, as an individual, did not condition in any way, shape, or form that he was going to bring all of the authentic hadiths into his Sahih. He didn’t say, "I’m going to take hadiths which are sahih and place them. I’m going to take all the hadiths which are sahih out there and write them in my book, and anything outside my book is weak." No, he didn’t say that. Rather, he himself authenticated hadiths that are not in his Sahih, but he just didn’t include this additional word.

So what we say is, first of all, we have to understand that Bukhari, as the first person to condition authenticity, said that his book is going to be the most authentic. That’s why the scholar al-Iraqi mentions in his Alfiyah (a thousand lines), "وَأَوَّلُ مَن صَنَّفَ فِي الصَّحِيحِ مُحَمَّدٌ وَخُصَّ بِالتَّرْجِيحِ" (And the first one to compile in the Sahih was Muhammad, and he gave special preference to it). He also said "وَمُسْلِمٌ بَعْدُ وَبَعْضُ الْغَرْبِ مَعَ بِي عَلِيمٍ فَضَلُ" (And Muslim came after him, and some scholars gave preference to Muslim).

The scholars reconciled between that and said that Bukhari is better than Muslim in terms of authenticity, while Muslim is better in terms of how he structured his book. But Bukhari never said, "I’m going to bring all of the authentic hadiths," because al-Iraqi and others state that Bukhari himself authenticated many ahadith that are not in his Sahih. He had specific criteria and conditions for including hadiths in his collection.

To think and assume that Bukhari avoided including certain narrations because something was wrong with them is an incorrect premise.

Additionally, let's consider a hadith in Sahih Muslim, narrated by Abu Sa'id al-Khudri, which mentions: "إذا تتاءب أحدكم فليمسك بيده على فيه فإن الشيطان يدخل" (When one of you yawns, let him place his hand over his mouth, for Shaytan enters).

This hadith is from Sahih Muslim. It's a hadith you can say is written in one of the two Sahih books. It's not just hyperbolized speech to emphasize the importance of covering your mouth. I mean, I’ve seen people yawn without covering their mouths, and I’ve never seen anybody immediately possessed by the jinn or anything like this.

"عدم العلم لا يدل على عدم الوجود" (Lack of knowledge does not indicate the absence of existence). Just because you don’t know doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Number one. Number two, it doesn’t mean that every single person who yawns without putting his hand over his mouth will have Shaytan enter him. Do you know one person that this happened to?

I mean, it could be a lot of people I know that are possessed, and this is where the possession started from. It could be. You see, it doesn't have to happen to everybody. The hadith didn't say it's going to happen to everybody. It's enough that it happens to one person. I mean, just as a side benefit regarding the same issue, Allah says in the Quran in a lot of places, He says: إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي قَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ (Indeed, Allah does not guide the wrongdoers). Now you might say to yourself, "I know a lot of wrongdoers that Allah guided." How do you reconcile that?

Some of the explanations that scholars give is that when Allah says إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي قَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ (Indeed, Allah does not guide the wrongdoers), it doesn't mean all of the wrongdoers; it means a specific group of them. It means one person or one case where Allah doesn't guide. The ayahs (verses) are coming into action, and they’re done. You see? Like another example that scholars bring is that when they define the term واجب (obligatory), they say: ما يُثَابُ عَلَى فِعْلِهِ وَيُعَاقَبُ عَلَى تَرْكِهِ (The one who does it will be rewarded, and the one who leaves it will be punished). Some scholars say there are some واجبات (obligatory acts) that a person may leave off, and Allah forgives them. So, how can your definition of a واجب (obligatory act) be this? They said if one person is punished for leaving a واجب (obligatory act), it’s enough. Our definition stands. Do you see my point?

I also thought of something on a similar topic. When we're talking about the Shaytan entering, what about the hadith regarding the Shaytan when the person goes to sleep? The Shaytan spends the night in his nose, yeah? And that just came to my mind right now. I was just thinking of it because I had written a note on it before, but it just came to mind now. That's also another similar kind of narration. It's a very well-known narration regarding the Shaytan when a person sleeps. The Shaytan spends the night in his nose, right?

What about the famous hadith of Uthman ibn al-‘As? حديث عثمان بن عفان (Hadith of Uthman ibn al-‘As), yeah, which one is that? ابن ماجة (Ibn Majah). This one is from ابن ماجة (Ibn Majah), where the Prophet ﷺ said: "اخرج عدو الله" (Come out, enemy of Allah). Are there not other narrations of the same hadith where this wording isn't mentioned again? No, this one is authentic, and it's صحيح (sahih). Some scholars try to weaken it because of the disconnection between المنهري بن عمرو (Al-Minhari ibn Amrin), who they said didn’t hear from يعلى بن مرة (Ya’la ibn Murrah). That's the hadith of يعلى بن مرة (Ya’la ibn Murrah). So that's the hadith. Sorry, that's the hadith of يعلى بن مرة (Ya’la ibn Murrah).

Even that hadith, some scholars—yeah, the hadith of عثمان بن العاص (Uthman ibn al-‘As) is different from the hadith of يعلى بن مرة (Ya’la ibn Murrah). Sorry, the hadith of يعلى بن مرة (Ya’la ibn Murrah). Some scholars try to weaken it and say that الحاكم (Al-Hakim) narrated it in his مستدرك (Mustadrak), and many other scholars narrated it. They say that the hadith of المنهري بن عمرو (Al-Minhari ibn Amrin) is weak. جهلي بن قحطان (Jahli ibn Qahtan) said that المنهري بن عمرو (Al-Minhari ibn Amrin) is a weak person. They said, secondly, that he hasn’t heard from يعلى بن مرة (Ya’la ibn Murrah). But we can avoid all of that by having a chain that fulfills that—people have narrated from يعلى بن مرة (Ya’la ibn Murrah) other than المنهري بن عمرو (Al-Minhari ibn Amrin), such as [other narrators].

So what is this hadith, first of all? This hadith that you're mentioning, what is this? So we have mentioned just two right now, right? So we mentioned the hadith of عثمان بن العاص (Uthman ibn al-‘As). Let's just bring that one out the way. He said that something appeared to me in my prayers, حَتَّى مَا أَدْرِي مَا أُصَلِّي (to the point that I didn’t know what I was praying). He came to the Messenger of Allah ﷺ and said this to him. He said: "يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ عَرَضَ لِي شَيْءٌ فِي صَلَاتِي حَتَّى لَا أَدْرِي مَا أُصَلِّي" (O Messenger of Allah, something appeared to me in my prayer to the point that I didn’t know what I was praying). The Prophet ﷺ said to him: "ذَا كَالشَّيْطَانِ" (This is the Shaytan). He said, "Come here," and the Prophet ﷺ struck my chest with his hand and spat into my mouth, saying: "اخرج عدو الله" (Come out, enemy of Allah). And he did that three times.

Where is this hadith narrated?

This hadith, as we said, is in Ibn Majah. It was declared sahih by al-Hakim in al-Mustadrak, by al-Rusayri, by al-Albani, and also by Bashar Awad Maroof. All of them declared this hadith in Sunan Ibn Majah to be sahih. This is the hadith of Uthman ibn al-‘As. Shaykh Usha mentioned the hadith of Ya‘la ibn Murrah, in which a woman came to the Prophet ﷺ and said: عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه أتته امرأة بابن لها قد أصابه لمم (“The Prophet ﷺ was approached by a woman with a son who had been afflicted by the lamam”).

Now, the word lamam (لمم) is something I really want to emphasize. I checked the dictionary definition of this, and it is described as "affliction by the jinn." The Arabs used this term for a child who is lamam (afflicted by the jinn) and suffering from a type of insanity caused by the jinn. The Prophet ﷺ said to the child or the jinn inside him: أخرج عدو الله ("Leave, enemy of Allah"), أنا رسول الله ("I am the Messenger of Allah"). And so, the child was completely healed.

What does أخرج عدو الله ("Leave, enemy of Allah") mean? It means to expel the enemy of Allah. This hadith was mentioned by Ibn Kathir, who also said that the chains of narration support each other. فَهذه طرق جيدة متعددة تفيد غلبة الظن أو القطع عند المتبحر أن يعلب المرة حدث بهذه القصة في الجملة (“These chains are good and numerous, indicating that Ya‘la ibn Murrah truly narrated this story in general”).

Those who have tried to weaken the hadith say it is due to one narrator, Al-Minhar ibn Amrin. They argue that he is weak and that he did not meet Ya‘la ibn Murrah. However, we can overcome this issue in two ways. We can either use mutaba‘ah (مُتابعة - corroboration) or shahid (شاهد - testimony), which means that other people besides Al-Minhar ibn Amrin narrated from Ya‘la ibn Murrah. For example, ‘Abd Allah ibn Hafsin, ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn ‘Abd al-‘Aziz, and ‘Umar ibn ‘Abd Allah. Additionally, Ahmad narrated this in his Musnad, and Bayhaqi narrated it in his Dalail. So, we have mutaba‘ah and shahid (corroboration and testimony), and we can confidently affirm that this hadith is sahih.

Now, moving to the hadith of Usama ibn Zayd رضي الله عنه when he spoke about going out with the Messenger of Allah ﷺ during Hajj. He said: عارضت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم امرأة ("A woman came to the Messenger of Allah ﷺ with a child"). She said: والذي بعثك بالحق ما زال في خنق واحد منذ ولدته إلى الساعة ("By the One who sent you with the truth, he has been like he is being strangled since the day I gave birth to him until now"). The Prophet ﷺ then تفل في فيه ("spat into his mouth") and said: أخرج عدو الله فإني رسول الله ("Leave, enemy of Allah, I am the Messenger of Allah"). This hadith is narrated by al-Bayhaqi in al-Dalail, by Abu Nu‘aym in al-Dalail, and by Al-Busiri in al-Zawaid. Al-Hafidh Ibn Hajar declared this hadith to be حسن (hasan - fair).

This is yet another hadith of a similar event that occurred with the Prophet ﷺ. As Shaykh mentions, it doesn't mean that the Prophet ﷺ spat in the literal sense; it refers to a blowing, which is different from al-nafth (النَّفث) (blowing), which is when you blow without spitting.

We haven't finished with the hadith yet. I’m not even going to go to the hadith of Safiyyah رضي الله عنها yet because we will come back to that. Or should we bring up the hadith of Safiyyah? Why not? The hadith of Safiyyah رضي الله عنها in which the Prophet ﷺ said: إن الشيطان يجري من الإنسان مجرى الدم ("Verily, Shaytan flows through the human being as blood flows"). This hadith was used as evidence for jinn possession by scholars such as Al-Qurtubi, Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami, Al-Buqa‘i, Ibn Hajar Asqalani, Muwaffaq Al-Din Abdul Latif Al-Baghdadi, Al-Qasim in his tafsir, and Al-Nawawi mentioned it from some of the shaykhs.

I think it was Al-Qadi al-Qadi Iyad who mentioned that this hadith refers to something real. I mean, that Shaytan truly flows through a person in the places where blood flows. But the content of this hadith, when the Prophet ﷺ was walking with his wife and came across a group of companions, is to clarify to them that this was his wife. Is that not more about suspicion? The companions weren't having epileptic fits at the time. No doubt the story of the hadith is as described, but that's not what all the scholars I quoted earlier used this hadith as evidence for. They used it as evidence for jinn possession.

We can also quote from Surah An-Nas: الذي يوسوس في صدور الناس ("the one who whispers in the hearts of men"). There are many narrations that mention this, using words that indicate that the whispering of Shaytan or the touch of Shaytan is something that exists externally and also within a person.

Do you agree, Shaykh? Sorry, just to clarify: If I whisper something into your ear, I'm not inside your ear—I'm outside. But that's why the ayah doesn’t say الذي يوسوس في آذان الناس ("the one who whispers in the ears of people")?

No, of course. But Shaytan obviously doesn’t have to whisper into our ears—he can whisper into our hearts because he يجري مجرى الدم ("flows through the veins like blood"). That’s why he enters someone's heart.

Let me ask you: Does Shaytan need to be close to us to whisper into our ears, or can he whisper from far away?

Your usage of the ayah is from a ‘ayah (verse) which is عام ("general")—a general verb. It means whisper externally and also internally. Why are you restricting the meaning to only one of those?

I would say: Why are you adding the internal meaning? Because it falls under the meaning يووسوس ("whispering"). He does وسوسة (whispering) in both forms, externally and internally. We have both of those. The ayah can take both meanings. Why have you chosen one and eliminated the other?

I’ll tell you why: Because if Shaytan were able to possess us, it would be one of his greatest powers over us. It would be a huge power. And the context of this ayah is that we are seeking refuge from Allah from this, so we are actually seeking refuge from the whispering of Shaytan. Why didn’t Allah just tell us to seek refuge from the possession of Shaytan?

I have a question: Don’t you think that Shaytan whispering into you and Shaytan whispering to you from outside are both the same in effect, in the sense that in both cases, he’s convincing you to do what he wants? No?

I think the difference is that whispering, in the English language at least, implies someone trying to influence someone with their words. Possession is a whole new topic. You’re taking control of my body. You’re making me do things I didn’t want to do. Whispering doesn’t have that connotation at all. Do you not agree?

I don’t know. I think Shaykh can expand on it a bit more. But I think some people have the idea that possession means a person is fully mad—completely crazy, not knowing what’s happening, and that they’re out of control. I think the right word to use here is that people have the idea that there are no shades of gray in possession. Maybe that’s the right way to say it. People are either 0% control or 100% control, with no in-between. There is no evidence for that. One of the strongest pieces of evidence against that is the hadith of Uthman, when he said: شيء ظهر لي في صلواتي ("Something appeared to me during my prayers"). Did he say that he became majnoon ("mad")? No, he said he became confused about how much he had prayed. So, like a whisper to confuse him, maybe? Could be. Exactly.

That’s why the Prophet ﷺ said: أخرج عدو الله ("Leave, enemy of Allah"). This is something that to me, the fact that Shaytan is within and without, is something which is mentioned repeatedly in different ways within the Qur’an and Sunnah. One of these is الذي يوسوس في صدور الناس ("the one who whispers in the hearts of men").

But I still haven’t finished with my hadith. I still had a hadith I wanted to raise with you: The hadith of Abu al-Aswad al-Sulami رضي الله عنه, in which the Messenger of Allah ﷺ mentioned the du'a that he used to say. He used to say: وأعوذ بك أن يتخبطني الشيطان عند الموت ("I seek refuge with You from Shaytan’s affliction at the time of death"). This is the same يتخبطني as mentioned in the ayah. It refers to the affliction of Shaytan at the time of death.

But I still don’t understand, because we are talking about يتخبطني ("to afflict me")—something imaginary, something that doesn’t really exist. So now we have the Prophet ﷺ making du'a to Allah to protect him from something imaginary. Or maybe not. It doesn’t really make sense either.

This hadith is narrated by Ahmad, Abu Dawood, al-Nasa’i, and al-Hakim, who declared it sahih. Al-Dhahabi agreed with him, as did Shaykh Nasir and al-Qadir al-Arna’ut. The word affliction here is not general in the sense of being influenced. In the ayah, it mentions mass (المس) with affliction, and here the same term تخبطه ("afflict him") is used. As al-Tabari said, تخبط (to strike or afflict) refers to insanity caused by the jinn. Shaytan causes me to suffer insanity. It’s not really waswasa (whispering), is it?

Can it happen through waswasa? It's a bit of a level above waswasa here. Takhabbatuhu ash-Shaytan (تخبطه الشيطان) is a level above the level of al-waswasa (الوسوسة). And again, we’re still talking about the hadith narrated by Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi, Abu Dawood, and an-Nasa'i from Abu Sa’eed al-Qudri that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said: "A’udhu billahi as-Samee’i al-‘Aleem min ash-Shaytan ar-Rajeem min hamzihi wa nafkhihi wa nafthihi." (“I seek refuge with Allah, the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing, from the accursed Shaytan, from his whispering, his blowing, and his suggestion.”)

Here again, in Lisan al-Arab, it mentions that the term al-hams (الهمز) refers to something which is described as a kind of insanity and a type of epilepsy, or fainting. So we see that this is something very well-established.

Now, if that is the case, if it’s so clear-cut and easy for us to understand like this, why have there been great scholars who have denied it? For example, Ibn Hazm said: “To claim that Shaytan can possess people and take control of them is to speak without knowledge, and this is haram (forbidden). This issue can only be known through a sound report, and we don’t have any sound report from the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم in this regard.” Fakhruddin al-Razi said in his tafsir (exegesis) that Shaytan has no power whatsoever to cause people to fall into illness or pain.

It’s funny you say that, but I actually have a quote from Ibn Hazm in which he said, in al-Fasl fi al-Milal wa al-Ahwa' wa al-Nahl (الفصل في الملل والأهواء والنحل), he said: “فَذَكَرَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ تَأْثِيرَ الشَّيْطَانِ فِي الْمَسْرُوعِ (Allah, the Mighty and Majestic, mentioned the influence of Shaytan on those suffering from epilepsy.)" So it is authentic that Shaytan can touch a person, as Allah has given him the authority to do so, with a mess (a type of disturbance) as mentioned in the Qur'an.

And Ibn Hazm continues, saying: “وَهَذَا هُوَ نَصُّ الْقُرْآنِ وَمَا تُوجِبُهُ الْمُشَاهَدَةُ وَمَا زَادَ عَلَى هَذَا فَخُرَفَاتٍ” (And this is the text of the Qur'an and that which is affirmed through observation, and whatever goes beyond this is mere superstition and innovations.)

How do we understand this?

We've got two almost conflicting quotes from the same person, Ibn Hazm رحمه الله. Even though we love him and respect him as a sheikh and an imam, they say that he had a lot of mistakes, especially when it came to issues of hadith (حديث) and even in aqeedah (عقيدة). They say, in the chapter of al-Asma' wa al-Sifat (الأسماء والصفات), he was a Jahmi (جهمي). Ibn Hazm is also criticized in hadith. For example, he criticized Imam Tirmidhi رحمه الله and said that Imam Tirmidhi is someone who's not well known. Tirmidhi is one of the six canonical books of hadith.

So, Ibn Hazm has shudhudh (شذوذ) — strange and awkward opinions. At times, you might find contradicting statements from him, where he affirms and negates things. Was it a phase he went through? Was it something that became clear to them over time?

One of the funny things that the scholars mention is that Ibn Hazm never performed Hajj in his life, even though he came from a very rich family. His father was a minister, so he was wealthy. The refutation that took place between him and Abu Walid al-Baji is also notable. They used to go back and forth with each other. One of the things that Abu Walid al-Baji said to him was, "Excuse me, I learned under the candlelight, I had nothing." Ibn Hazm replied, "Excuse me, I learned under pearls and jewels."

There’s a story about a book he wrote where he discussed Hajj and made a hundred mistakes. They said this happened because he never went to Hajj himself — he was talking theoretically, not from personal experience.

Anyway, Ibn Hazm had these issues, and there are other things like that. In the chapter of al-Asma' wa al-Sifat (Allah's Names and Attributes), they say he's a Jahmi (dangerous). He has shudhudh and takhabbat (تخبطات) sometimes, like these issues, especially when it comes to ijma’ (إجماع) — consensus. Sometimes, he just goes against consensus. That’s why there’s a risalah (رسالة) written about the Zahiriya (الظاهرية), and the question is: *Do the Zahiriya take ijma' into consideration? For example, if we have an ijma' (consensus) on an issue, do we still give weight to what the Zahiriya say?

There’s a discussion going on in that regard. So, here we say we have ijma' from great, noble imams. We have ijma' in terms of the interpretation of the verse: “الَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ الرِّبَا لَا يَقُومُونَ إِلَّا كَمَا يَقُومُ الَّذِي يَتَخَبَّطُهُ الشَّيْطَانُ مِنَ الْمَسِّ.” (The ones who consume riba (usury) will not stand except as stand those who are driven to madness by the touch of Shaytan.)

This verse is ijma’ — there’s no other interpretation of this verse. And that’s important because you mentioned Fakhruddin al-Razi as well. Meanwhile, Imam at-Tahawi (الإمام الطحاوي) mentions that people have only been commanded to seek refuge from the whispers of Shaytan. This is the only power Shaytan has. I mean, doesn’t this break the ijma’ you’re talking about?

What did Fakhruddin al-Razi say? He said that Shaytan has no power whatsoever to cause people to fall into illness or pain. If he has no power to do that, then how can he possess someone? Again, we're going to get things wrong if we don’t take this approach.

Al-Qaidah (القاعدة) is: Kalam al-‘Ulama’ yuhtajju lahu wa la yuhtajju bih (القاعدة هي كلام العلماء يحتج له ولا يحتج به). The statements of the scholars need evidence. They are not used as evidence. I’m not saying to you that this is the speech of, you know, all the other verses that we brought from the Qur'an.They were interpretations. أنا معك (I agree with you), but those who say al-ruba’ (الربع) — we said it's a consensus. A consensus of scholars. No consensus is a proof now, okay? It's a proof, just like the Qur'an and the Sunnah are proofs. What’s the evidence that consensus is a proof? I know it's a slight tangent, but how can you say that? Allah سبحانه وتعالى (Allah, Exalted and Glorified) says:

"وَمَن يَشْتَفِكْ عَنْ سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَسَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ" (Anyone who diverts from the path of Allah and the messenger and the path of the believers). The path of the believers means the consensus of the Muslims, okay? And then Allah سبحانه وتعالى says:

"وَنُوَلِّهِ مَا تَوَلَّى وَنُسْلِهِ جَهَنَّمَ وَسَاءَتْ مَصِيرًا" (And We will turn him to what he turned to, and We will lead him to Hellfire, and it is an evil destination).

Allah سبحانه وتعالى says in another ayah:

"يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا" (O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more favorable in the end).

The mafhoom al-mukhalafa (مفهوم المخالفة), which is the reverse understanding of it, is that if we do not differ, we don’t bring it back to the Qur'an and the Sunnah. I mean, there's a consensus, okay? So, the consensus is a hujja (حجة), a proof.

There’s a hadith narrated by Abdullah ibn Umar رضي الله عنه (may Allah be pleased with him) in Sunan that says:

"لَا تَجْتَمِعُ أُمَّتِي عَلَى الضَّلَالَةِ" (My Ummah will never gather upon misguidance).

So, the fact that there was a consensus upon the understanding of this ayah in Surah Al-Baqarah means we have no choice but to understand it this way. That's something very important to make clear.

So, if Fakhruddin al-Razi says something, or if we find Abu Ali al-Jubba'i (a Mu'tazili) or Abu Bakr al-Razi saying something — that the jinn cannot possess a person — we say to them, "The kalam (speech) of the consensus that we have is going to take precedence over that."

Also, with Fakhruddin al-Razi, I must admit, I would like to go back to that statement because I gathered a long list of people who went against this. And he has a statement saying that possession can happen, and what I saw is the opposite from him. Also, he's not from the list of well-known people who came out with this opinion. In fact, if we talk about the well-known people who came out with this idea, they are from three groups only, that I have found, and Sheikh, you might be able to find more:

  1. The Mu'tazilah (المعتزلة): Almost everybody who said this was someone who did an explanation or commentary on Al-Kashaf by Zamakhshari. Almost all of them held this opinion — the rejection of the possibility of jinn possession.
  2. The Jahmiyyah (الجهمية): As mentioned by Sheikh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (رحمه الله) and Ibn Hajar al-Haytami (رحمه الله), among others.
  3. Some of the Rafida (الرافضة): One or two, but to be honest, we don’t have a great deal of concern for that.

So, in all honesty, the only people who don’t say that the jinn possess people are the Mu'tazilah, the Jahmiyyah, and the Rafida. A lot of people watching here right now might say, "Aren’t the Mu'tazilah non-Muslims? Who are they? What are they? Are they another belief? Are they a group of Christianity?"

The Mu’tazilah were a group that emerged during the time of Hasan al-Basri (رحمه الله). Hasan al-Basri had a student named Al-Wasim Na'ata. Wasim came to Hasan al-Basri and asked him about the ruling regarding Murtakib al-Kabira (the one who commits a major sin). What are the consequences for someone who commits a major sin? This dialogue took place between Hasan al-Basri, an Imam of the Sunnah, and this man, Al-Wasim Na'ata. Hasan al-Basri saw that this man was deviating from the right path, so he told him, "Get away from us."

The term Mu’tazila (المعتزلة) came from this incident. From Wasim Na'ata came Amr ibn Ubaid. Later, during the time of Ahmad ibn Hanbal (رحمه الله), Bishr al-Marisi, Thumamah ibn Ashras, and Ahmad ibn Du'ad emerged. This group came together and evolved in their beliefs. Bishr al-Marisi, Ahmad ibn Du'ad, and Thumamah ibn Ashras were the ones who imprisoned Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, especially Ibn Du'ad.

Ibn Du'ad was very close to Al-Ma'mun, Al-Mu'tasim, and Al-Wathiq—the three Abbasid rulers. Interestingly, Harun al-Rashid (رحمه الله) had initially removed and even harmed them, placing them in prison. However, Al-Mu'tasim (the brother of Harun al-Rashid) helped them, though Al-Ma'mun was the one who really supported them, giving them significant positions. For example, Ibn Du'ad became Al-Qadi al-Qudat (Chief Judge) during the time of Al-Wathiq and Al-Mu'tasim (minister of justice).

The point here is that this group—whose beliefs were corrupt—was responsible for imprisoning Imam Ahmad and subjecting him to torture. They held the view that the Qur'an is created, and that Allah has no attributes. This belief is clearly deviant and corrupt.

Furthermore, they held the concept of Taqdeem al-‘Aql (تقديم العقل), meaning they gave precedence to reasoning over revelation. This is why they rejected many matters related to the unseen, claiming they could not internalize them.

In fact, many modern-day du'at (callers to Allah) unknowingly hold Mu’tazili beliefs. They are not offering anything new but are simply repeating the same ideas that were espoused by the Mu’tazila.

On the point of jinn possession, when you summarize the opinions of those who believe that Shaytan does not possess people, you see two groups of people: one group genuinely held this belief and understood it, such as Zamakhshari (in Al-Kashaf) and Juba’i (from the Mu’tazila). However, there were others who just copied these opinions without deep reflection. The scholars (ulama) say that these people were from the Shurah (commentators) and simply repeated the views of the Mu’tazila without engaging with them critically.

Now, I think this is a good point to discuss Ijma’ (consensus). I have some quotes here that indicate there is consensus (Ijma') among the Imam of Islam, specifically from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah, that the jinn can enter the body. Ijma' is an evidence, as the Sheikh has already explained. I will mention a few quotes, and we can begin discussing them insha'Allah.

We're going to start with Abu'l-Hassan Ash'ari who mentioned in his book Al-Ibana:

وَإِنَّ الشَّيْطَانُ يُوَسْوِسُ لِلْإِنسَانِ وَيُشَكِّكُهُ وَيَتَخَبَّطُهُ خِلَافًا لِقَوْلِ الْمُعْتَزِلَةِ وَالْجَهْمِيَّةِ كَمَا قَالَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ

Then he mentioned the ayah:

وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ الرِّبَا لَا يَقُومُونَ إِلَّا كَمَا يَقُومُ الَّذِي يَتَخَبَّطُهُ الشَّيْطَانُ مِنَ الْمَسْرِ

He said the belief of Ahlus Sunnah is that the shaytan whispers to the person and causes him doubt, and touches him with insanity, in opposition to what the Mu'tazila say and the Jahmiya say, as Allah Azawajal said. Then he quoted the ayah from Surah Al-Baqarah.

Keep it in mind now: Even this is not a disagreement between Ahlus Sunnah and the Ash'ariyya as well. The Ash'ariyya are with us on the issue of jinn possession. So, you can see the dispute here on the issue of jinn possession: Ahlus Sunnah on one side and the Mu'tazila and the Jahmiya on the other. You take your pick— which group are you going to take?

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