Note: This transcript was generated using AI and can contain inaccuracies.
Bismillahi wassalatu wassalamu ala rasoolillahi salallahu alayhi wasallam amma ba'da Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh Brothers and sisters, it gives me great pleasure to welcome you and to introduce you to a brand new show and a brand new podcast called The Hot Seat. To understand a little bit more about The Hot Seat, we first have to understand the context of the modern day world we find ourselves living in in the year 2019. It is a world in which perhaps, perhaps there are more doubts, misconceptions and misinterpretations that are thrown around about the religion of Islam than in any other period of time in the history of mankind.
The internet is the number one source used by people globally to acquire information on any topic and it is riddled and full of false notions and erroneous ideologies about the Our kids, ourselves are being exposed to this kind of information on a daily and if not daily, then at the very least weekly basis and whether we know it or not, whether we choose to accept it or not, it is having an effect on ourselves, our hearts, our minds and ultimately our understanding of this beautiful religion. To further complicate the problem, many of us find ourselves living in western societies where the governments and the social norms and pressures are constantly trying to redefine what is good and what is bad, what is accepted and what is rejected, what Islam is and is allowed to be and what Islam is never allowed to be. All of this, my brothers and sisters, ultimately leads to confusion, it leads to ignorance and if Allah permits, it can lead to misguidance.
The Hot Seat has therefore been designed, with the permission of Allah alone, to counter these kind of modern day, contemporary issues head on by using the knowledge and the guidance of the Muslims of the past, the early generations of Muslims, the best of generations. There's not a single Muslim on the face of the planet today that would doubt the fact that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala completed our religion for us over 1400 years ago and that that completed, holistic, perfect religion is just as applicable now in the year 2019 as it was back then. We truly do have classical solutions for contemporary problems.
However, this isn't your normal, average Islamic lecture series. First of all, it's not a lecture, it's a discussion between two parties, often opposing parties, in an attempt to reach the truth bi'idhnillah. And secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it's a unique, one of its kind, interactive podcast where you, from the comfort of your own home, have the opportunity to vote for and to choose the topic we'll be discussing on the show.
You also have the chance to ask your own questions on these contemporary issues and to grill the speaker if you feel like he hasn't been grilled enough on the show itself. I'll be releasing details of how you can do both of those things at the end of this episode. But for now, without any further ado, let's get into this episode of The Hot Seat.
As-salamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Ustadh Abdul Rahman, welcome to The Hot Seat. Thank you very much for joining me today.
So this, as you know, is episode one, and as I mentioned in the introduction, it's talking about contemporary issues that we're dealing with in the year 2019, the modern day world. And actually, this was actually your idea, you approached me with this, to have this kind of podcast dealing with modern day issues. Do you want to tell a bit more about why you think this is important for the Muslims in 2019? As you know, the Prophet ﷺ had told us that there's going to come trials and tribulations as time goes on, and we get closer to the hour, the problems that the Ummah are going to be going through, the groups that are going to be formed, the ideologies that are going to be presented.
The Prophet ﷺ already told us, he prophesied this 1400 something years ago. And he didn't just prophesize that there are going to come problems and they're going to come deviated and misguided concepts. But rather he ﷺ, he clarified, he explained the way out of it.
And how is a Muslim meant to deal with those ideologies and those beliefs and those misconceptions So I've seen what's taking place in the Da'wah scene. And I don't want to say people haven't responded to these ideologies and these groups and good work has been done and efforts have been exerted in that regard. But I've not yet seen, this is my humble opinion, someone who's taken these issues, these contemporary problems, and then responded from a classical textual evidence.
They didn't come with anything new, but they used the Qur'an, they used the Sunnah, they used the statement of the early generation who we believe in our tradition, that they are the most noble and most righteous. As the Prophet ﷺ said in the hadith, Which means? The best of generation is my generation and those who come and those who come after. So since they're the best, the khairiyah, the virtue that's connected to these people is not just their actions and as many people believe, how they prayed, how they read Qur'an, but also in terms of their knowledge and the knowledge that they possessed.
So what I want you to do is take all of these groups, whether they are within Islam or outside Islam, and debunk their misconceptions, respond and dismantle their beliefs, all based upon nususul wahiya, textual evidences from the Qur 'an, from the Sunnah, and from the statements of the early generation. That's why I thought a podcast that could do that is greatly needed. Because as you know, Sheikh al-Islam ibn Taymiyyah, he responded to just about every group at his time, whether they were groups within Islam or whether they were groups outside Islam.
He responded to them and he really responded to them with the Qur'an and the Sunnah. He proved that the answers are within those two. And so I want to bring back to the young youths who are studying in academic universities, who are learning psychology, they are learning philosophy, they are learning these these data being brought to them and presented to them.
I want to give them the thiqa, the confidence that their answers is not far -fetched. It's actually right under their nose. It's in the Qur'an and the Sunnah.
So that's why I think inshallah. Jazakallah khair. I think from a personal perspective, one thing that I'm really looking forward to is having some user interaction.
So the fact that the viewers at home get to vote for which topic we're going to be discussing on certain episodes, and the fact that this is a podcast and it's not a lecture, so you have the opportunity to go into detail, more detail than you have for a lecture. So as you know, this is episode one, so we haven't released the vote and it was a topic that we're going to discuss today that we chose, or specifically I chose and presented to you. And that is, who can you trust in the modern day da'wah scene? And the reason why this is a contemporary issue, because the advent of social media has allowed many many people, walillah alhamdulillah, to speak about Islam.
And that can bring some good and it can also bring some bad. And the purpose of today is to discuss those good things and those bad things and how we can be careful and how we should be cautious in terms of who we take our knowledge from. So the first question I'll ask you is, why is this even important? Why do we need to be cautious from who we take knowledge from? So before I answer your question, there's one thing, a disclaimer that I want to put out there for everybody inshallah ta'ala.
All of the topics, not just this session inshallah ta'ala, but every single topic that we have, I really want the listeners, those who are watching inshallah ta'ala, that if they have a deep-rooted negative belief, if they have a dark perception of a topic that we're going to speak about or we're going to handle, and they've got a preconceived notion, that they come inshallah ta'ala with a clear mind. Okay. They come with a clear mind and they put aside everything that they believed before and they really look at what we're trying to bring, the evidences and the proofs that we're trying to provide and our arguments, all based on their merits and all based upon its authenticity and the way that we extract the rulings and we deduct the arguments from it.
So that's something I want inshallah ta'ala and I wouldn't want somebody to come and believe something first and when they do come to the discussion all they're trying to look for is flaws in the argument or flaws in our discussion because if you're trying to do that then I can reassure you now we will have that. We will have that because we're humans. The poet said وَمَن دَلَّذِي تُرْضَى صَجَا يَاهُ كُلُّهَا كَفَى الْمَرْءِ نُبْلًا أَن تُعَدَّ مَعَيِّبُهُ Who is the person that when he speaks he doesn't do mistakes but the virtue of a person is that their mistakes are countable.
So that's the first thing that I request inshallah ta'ala that you don't have any psychological resistance that inshallah ta'ala you give this podcast a chance to hear our arguments. In response to your question the dangers of innovation and also the people of innovation it stems from the meaning of لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله and as you know لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله is the foundation of our religion. When a person comes into islam that's the first thing that they are told to say they're told to say لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله.
The part that concerns this podcast is محمد رسول الله. What does it mean when somebody says I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. What he's saying in essence is that I follow him in everything in all my speech in all my actions I follow Nabiullah Muhammad in my belief system.
In simple terms you're saying I'm upon his sunnah his way sunnah means the way of the messenger alayhi salatu wasalam and so when you say I'm upon the way of the prophet alayhi salatu wasalam you're also saying I am I am against the way that is opposite to his way the newly introduced ways. So you connect yourself to his sunnah and you also show allegiance to the people who are holding on to that sunnah with you. You have love for them and you also free yourself from innovation and the people who come with innovation you free yourself from them and we're going to be using terms like as sunnah so it's good to understand it now which means the prophet's way alayhi salatu wasalam and his tradition his speech his actions sunnah means it is whatever is attributed to the prophet in terms of speech action consent the prophet's character and the way he looked alayhi salatu wasalam all of that is is a sunnah that's what sunnah means and innovation means everything that was introduced into the religion without any pre-example there's no example that came before it meaning this person bought it either themselves or someone within islamic history he introduced it into islam it wasn't practiced at the time of the messenger alayhi salatu wasalam it was not practiced at the time of the companions that's an innovation.
I want to say quickly and we're going to speak about that in more great details inshallah there's one hadith that the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam advised his companions and this is basically the hadith of Irbad Ibn Sariah. Ashab al-sunnah narrated it that the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam narrated it that the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam he advised his companions he said Irbad the companion said the messenger gave us a farewell like just a farewell advice وَعَذَنَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّىٰهُ عَسِلَمًا مَوْعِظَةٌ وَجِلَتْ مِنْهَا الْقُرُوبُ وَضَرَفَتْ مِنْهَا الْعُيُونُ it really our heart trembled from the prophet's words and the eyes started to water and it was like it was a farewell like the last speech like if you're about to die so we said to him the messenger mentioned here three usul three foundations three fundamental principles the first foundation is تجريد التوحيد وتحقيق العبادة that you come with monotism توحيد and you come with following the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and that's the first foundation the second foundation is that you stick to the جماعة you stick to the جماعة the جماعة here means you follow the way of the companions okay you follow the way of the companions and you stick with the muslim leader that you don't uprise and you don't protest and you don't demonstrate against the muslim leader okay and you hear and you obey him of course as long as he doesn't command you something that which is haram the third usul is stay away from innovation and also the innovators the prophet warned us against this so this hadith it talks about three foundations that the people of the sunnah hold on to and this is like one of the last statements of the messenger or it was one of his final farewell statements so what you're saying is actually a piece of prophetic advice to advise us to be careful of innovators and to stay away from them that is exactly what the prophet did i mean if i could still build up upon that a bit more if you actually ponder on the quran and also the sunnah you will find that it's built upon two foundations it's built upon a to place a foundation to clarify the truth to tell the people what is right and what allah wants and what pleases him subhanahu wa ta'ala that is the first foundation the second foundation is that our religion stands on is warning against evil in all of its forms warning against innovation warning against sins warning even from the sinners warning against what the innovators this is what our religion it stands on and it's sad because what you see nowadays is people who just they like to please others they like to please other people or veneration and glorification of particular individuals prevents them from how from wanting to say the truth and what is right they actually see that which is wrong it's right in front of them but they won't say anything they'll say what's it got to do with me and so i wanted to remind them a hadith of the prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam al -imam al-tirmidhi narrated it ibn al-maja and also al-hakim narrated in his mustadrak hadith abu sa'id al-khudri that the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam he said the prophet said do not let one of you prevent him the veneration and the glorification of the people you're trying to honor a particular imam you're trying to honor a particular community so because of that you choose not to say the truth don't let it stop you from what to say the truth when you know that this is the way allah wants you know that this is what allah commanded you know this is what allah prohibited just because of the people don't withhold it say it abu sa'id al-khudri when the prophet said that he cried the narrator of the hadith the companion he cried and look what he said he said we saw things that were done in our presence but we chose to not speak against it because of veneration of people and glorification of people and so this sahabi recognized it it touched him i hope that this can do it for a lot of people out there who now are just really concerned about how many followers do i have how many people are with me you know that they measure their dawah and the success of their dawah on how many people follow them and inshallah i think we'll speak about that in great details inshallah but i i think that should be the foundation of our podcast that really we're not here right now in these podcasts to really please anyone and i always say to people it's not about concealing and withholding the message that's not what islam has come for and that's not what islam is saying you say the truth but you look how you say it okay you you choose the wordings that you're going to use to to preach to this person or to to to convey the message to this particular person you choose it you don't just say it the way you want and then look you say oh the person doesn't want to take the truth i've been speaking to him for a long time yeah but in a despicable way you've been speaking to them so the message should be conveyed but it should be conveyed in a well-mannered way as allah subhanahu wa ta'ala said to nabiullah musa al-harun go to firaun he's exceeded his limits speak to him in a gentle manner why the way that you speak to firaun and the gentle message that you use for him will and could possibly it can humble him and it can maybe allow him to come to his senses allah knew that firaun wasn't going to come back but this is a lesson for you and i some of the great scholars they used to say you are not better than musa he was commanded to speak in that way okay and the person that you're talking to is not worse than firaun you're talking to a muslim brother of yours so i think that's balancing and not conflating the two that just mentioned which is conveying the message and also how you convey the message the people they should another thing i think before i i stop is that in our podcast we have more focus we're more focused on um what the people need and not what the people want and that's i think what the job of a day is he should focus on what the community need what is important for them and solving their problems and not what they want sometimes people want things that are bad for them things that are detrimental for them we need to focus on what the people want and so what the people need so i think inshallah with that inshallah i hope i hope allah brings khair and barakah out of this i think you've laid down some really important fundamentals that inshallah we'll revisit later on throughout this episode but you spoke in detail about staying away from the people of innovation warning against the people of innovation but as you know we don't take certain ahadith and certain ayat from the quran and we base our religion on that we look at the religion as a whole and there are other verses in the quran and other ahadith that talk about for example having good thoughts about your brother not suspecting him not backbiting him isn't what you're saying contradictory to all of this this concept of be cautious of innovation and to be cautious from the innovators it's it's not selected evidences here and there to be frank and honest it's actually the entirety of the quran is warning against evil and its people and it's telling you to go towards good and its people that's the whole entire quran rather the quran is called al-furqan because what the job of the quran is to tell you this is right from this is wrong when nabiullah muhammad came to mecca and he called the people to al -islam the accusation and that which was said about him was that muhammad is dividing the people the reason why they said that is because he was calling them to a message he didn't water that message he didn't change it to fit into their society and etc what he did was he gave the message as it was let me mention some evidences maybe some people who are listening haven't even heard of these evidences our mother aisha may allah be pleased with her and her father she is the wife of the prophet aisha was the wife of the prophet and we can say that she was she is the most knowledgeable woman that we know in islam our mother aisha aisha correcting some of the other companions he is a scholar she said that one day the messenger this is found in bukhari and muslim the two most authentic books she said that the prophet recited the famous ayah she said that the prophet recited this ayah and when he recited this verse she said first of all what does the verse mean quickly i mean there's a lot of meaning in the verse that we can take episodes on it but the ayah in summary mentions that the quran is divided into two ambiguous and vague verses and verses which are clear-cut allah mentioned in that verse people whose heart are sick whether they are non-muslims or whether they are muslims they won't go for the clear -cut verses they will actually go towards the ambiguous verses those vague verses those verses that can take more than one interpretation they're going to go for those ones and they're going to make that the fundamental principle and they're going to dismiss and push aside the clear-cut verses allah referred to them as sick-hearted individuals they are sick-hearted people i'll give you an example that can clarify that for you for instance allah uses in the quran we now we know the word we even in english it's used for one of two reasons either out of royalty a person who the person who's venerating himself out of royalty or it can be used for a person who's talking and he's got somebody else talking with him meaning plurality it can be used for one of those two a sick-hearted person will go towards huh yeah the fact that it's more than one they'll say that it's more than one because they don't want to go to the clear-cut verses that show allah when he used the word we he only means himself and he's speaking out of royalty the ayat is for instance he doesn't want to go to that verse so he's sick-hearted our messenger when recited that verse he said to his wife aisha he said to her if you see those people those ambiguous verses okay they are the ones allah has named is the ones allah pointed out in this verse aisha be cautious of them be vigilant and diligent from these people stay away from them he said that to her so the quran we know that there are verses which are unclear that are ambiguous the poet sahib al maraqi he said there are verses which we will never even know what its meaning are like for example letters like that allah kept the knowledge for himself and there are some verses which are unclear but they become clear when you take them to what when you take them back to the clear verses it becomes clear sick-hearted person what would he do he would not take all of these verses that we're going to mention he's going to say well i want to take the one here and the one there so our mother aisha the prophet warned her from those type of people said stay away from them now question here is aisha has knowledge to determine who's saying what and what the response to him she knows that but he still told her to stay away from them in another ayah allah what did he say this is my path and do not follow the path of the deviating people who went astray don't follow those people's paths they will take you away from what pleases allah they will throw you into the ditch they will throw you into hell another ayah allah subhanahu wa ta'ala he said mentions in his ayah he said if you come across a people who are speaking about the verses of allah with no knowledge they are distorting the meaning of the quran they are misinterpreting the quran don't sit with these people the innovators the misguided people don't sit with them leave them get away from them allah mentions in that same verse if you do sit with them and you choose to still carry on being with them allah he clearly says you are like them then now this ayah some may say oh but this is what it means and how do you know it's referring to the innovators and what not let me give you the statement of the scholars is one of the great great illustrious scholars of islam bona fide and he has a tafsir book this is after he spoke about you have to stay away from the sinners the person drinking alcohol you can't see in his gathering and etc i said after i have established after i have established to stay away from the people of sins and the criminals as i just mentioned to stay away from the people of innovation and desires allah is more befitting if i'm telling you to stay away from the people drinking alcohol and committing zina who are lying who are cheating then to stay away from the innovators it's actually even more more fitting it's more befitting look what he then said the overwhelming majority of the mufassereen have said the people who enter into this verse are every innovator who innovated in this religion until the day of judgment that's one ayah another ayah i want to mention to you a powerful extremely powerful statement of al-imam al-shawkani i actually believe this statement is enough for us to conclude the whole point okay it's that look what shawkani says i was really amazed how he spoke about this topic he said in this verse he said there's a lesson a reminder those who permit those who sit with the innovators which innovators those who are distorting the speech of allah okay every innovator you will see that he distorts the quran whether it be distorting it physically by changing it and inshallah that won't happen because allah will protect it and the second type of distortion which is to change its meanings to change the mean and also that inshallah won't happen because there's always people are going to protect the religion so this verse he said there's a great reminder for those who sit and permit and like to sit with the innovators which innovators those who distort the speech of allah azza wa jalla and they are playing around with the book of allah and they bring everything back to their desires when you say something to them they say i am not inclined to it i don't like it which desires their misguided desires and their corrupt innovation if the person does not reject these people if the person does not debunk these people and dismantle their belief and he doesn't change their affairs the basic thing that you at least do let the thing that you at least do be that you leave off sitting with them at least you couldn't change them you saw that these people are persistent upon their misguidance and they are persistent upon going against allah's commandments falling into their whims and their desires then let the least that you can do be to walk away from them and not to sit with them look what he then said that's very easy and it's not hard i like the statement i love this he said they would take your sitting with them you sitting with them you've been with them they will say to the people we are upon guidance imam so-and-so is with us shaykh so-and-so ustad so-and-so is with us so how can we be misguided so-and-so who calls to the sunnah who's been preaching the sunnah who fights for the sunnah who holds on to the sunnah is with us how can we be misguided how could we be astray that's what they would say him participating him being there with them him cutting the cake with them and all of that there's going to be in there it's actually an additional problem what's the additional problem because you couldn't change their evil that was really a problem you sitting with them it was another it was another problem and now you've added more onto it which is that you have made the eyes of the general mass turn towards this person because your affiliation with somebody makes the people think that this person is verified this person is mashallah he is up there you see you sitting with them is a greater evil than just listening to the evil another evidence that i want to mention inshallah is the statement of the prophet the messenger said in that this is mentioned by muslim in his muqaddimah and it's important that people understand this if you quote a hadith that's in the introduction of muslim you can't say muslim narrated and leave it like that okay you have to clearly say that it is in the introduction of muslim in the muqaddimah of muslim the reason is because they say that the muqaddimah doesn't have the same condition of what is in his in his in his main book so we have to say that because there can be weak narration in the muqaddimah but this is authentic muslim narrated is in his muqaddimah and abu hurairah said that the prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said before the hour strikes the ending of the hour there's going to be there's going to come into people they will talk to you guys they will preach they will convey the so-called message of islam to you and they will say things that you've never heard of and your forefathers have never heard of it stay away from them stay away from them be cautious of them who's saying this the messenger alayhis salatu wasalam nabiullah muhammad is saying this stay away from them be cautious and i want to say to the people who are listening the podcast i want to say after those evidence that i gave no one should argue against allah and his messenger allah said in the quran the only people who argue against the verses of allah are the disbelievers how did allah say that whether he no no i don't understand that that's dividing the people the people who argue against it are people who have desires and who have illness and maybe that person should be worried for himself and concerned for himself that he would question such evidences okay this is where i'm at i i think you've provided sufficient proof for staying away from innovators warning can i can i i know i actually can i give examples of the prophet doing himself warning against people individuals saying their names you have examples i have examples okay fatima biltiqis was a woman who came to the prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam she said ya rasul allah she mentioned she mentioned to the prophet she said oh messenger of allah now we want to understand who muawiyah is muawiyah is the kathib ul wahi he's the writer he is the scriber who writes the revelation that's what he stated he's been trusted with the revelation of the quran he's a reliable person noble companion muawiyah is another noble companion both of these companions they came for the hand of fatima bintiqis so fatima came to the prophet she wants to consult him she said oh messenger of allah two men have come for me and they want to get married to what do you think the prophet said to her he doesn't take his sword sorry he's what is he's a stick he doesn't throw his stick from his shoulder meaning he's always carrying his stick in another narration the prophet said he beats the women that's what he does in other words don't marry him the second companion the noble the second noble companion is muawiyah and they said muawiyah doesn't have wealth so don't go for him then he said go and marry usama ibn zayd now usama is the person who the prophet instructed her to get married to and he told her to stay away from two noble companions let's focus here the prophet is warning a woman a female companion about the marriage of two noble companions the messenger first of all did not mention the good in these two companions he didn't he straight away went into the what that which he faults them on and that which he felt was necessary to tell to tell fatima bintiqis number two the messenger saw it binding to speak about them and this was not to be backbiting spoke about them yeah no one would say the prophet fell into backbiting at all he mentioned a reality in front of them if you go to riyad al salihin everyone knows that book right it's a loved book right now we chapter a chapter where he called it the time when backbiting is permissible and from them do we find this six times he said it's from them is from them is if you see a person who's walking to a teacher wanting to take knowledge from him and that teacher is corrupt then he said it is permissible to backbite him and to say that stay away from this teacher don't go to him now what we saying this that's exactly what we're talking about now exactly what he said another example i want to show you is that Aisha he said a man sought permission to enter upon the prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam when the prophet saw the man the prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam what did he say oh he heard him he said evil it is this man evil is is this man now now when we commented on this statement this hadith in in his sahih muslim he explained it he said this is an indication and an evidence that if an evil person comes and you believe that it's going to harm the people that you speak against them and another time we know the famous hadith when the prophet said about a companion he said Abu Sanabil was a companion he gave a verdict in an issue and he got it wrong the prophet said Abu Sanabil lied he lied a man came to him and he said to him it's hard on me a man came to Imam Ahmed and he said to him it's actually hard on me to speak about the people i can't speak about people i can't do that i cannot do that i can't say so and so is this and so and so on is that i can't do that so Imam Ahmed said to him if you become quiet and i then become quiet as well when will the ignorant one know who's right and who's who's a foodster how are people gonna know if i go quiet and you go quiet and everyone goes quiet then no one will know who is real and who is fake no one will know Lahir you've convinced me you've convinced me but there is still a few issues outstanding and that first of them is we our discussion so far has been about innovators and it's easy to warn against a clear-cut innovator who you know is opposing the sunnah but the question is as is the case with many many speakers out there who are giving dawah what if you're not what if they haven't made clear what they're upon and you're not 100% sure if they're an innovator from them people i'm assuming it's okay to take knowledge i do want to say something which is important that is taking the people out of the sunnah is something very hard okay it's not an easy matter a person shouldn't be hasty and jump on it especially if you have no knowledge that's not your field to speak about it but what i do want to say is warning against a person who is an innovator and it's clear to you that he's an innovator and i will mention how you can know it's clear to you and what makes it clear i will speak about that i will not push that aside we should warn against that person and it's upon the it's an amanah it's a responsibility on on that to warn the people against that person and say don't take that knowledge from that person and this issue is not a disputed issue by the way it's a consensus i'm saying that no two scholars from the pious predecessors differed on that let me mention one consensus for this issue Abu Bakr Siddiq, Abu Bakr Siddiq, Abd al-Aoud, Abu Yaseed al- Raqqashi, and Sulaiman ibn Musa all of them i have mentioned they told me stick with the Jamaah Ahlu s-sunnah and they prohibited me from and they warned me from asked the The salafi unanimously agreed upon and it's worrying that after that a person was still questioned and say, really, what are you guys talking about? Abdullah ibn Abbas said, لا تجالس أهل الأهواء Don't sit with the people of innovation. فإن مجالستهم Sitting with the people of innovation ممرضة للقلوب It is what? It brings illness to the heart.
Some people, they say تسكية النفس We want to purify our hearts. Yes, we need to purify our hearts. But one of the things that taint the heart is to sit with the innovators, to take from them, to be with them.
It makes the heart sick and it destroys your heart. And it's what brings darkness to your heart and dots to your heart and makes your life hard. So stay away from the innovators.
Now, people who fall into mistakes or people who come with shortcomings and they're in the dawah scene, we have to understand that what type of mistake have they fallen into? This is something very important that's understood. Because I think you're going to explain the question here is if you're saying stay away from innovators, how does one know who has fallen into innovation? Okay, let me mention what makes a person from the Sunnah. Al-Imam Al-Safarini is an awami al-anwar.
He says something very powerful. He said, الذين إنما يأخذون He's talking about the people of the Sunnah. أهل السنة Who are they? They are ones who take إنما يأخذون عقيدتهم They take their belief من المأثور that which is transmitted عن الله from Allah عز و جل.
So you want to recognize who's right and who's wrong. Okay. They take their religion, their belief system.
Okay. They take it from what? عن الله from Allah عز و جل. في كتاب that which he mentioned in his book, the Qur'an.
أو في سنة النبي or that which the messenger mentioned صلى الله عليه وسلم or that which has been transmitted from the Prophet. أو ما تبت و صح عن السلف الصالح And that which has authentically been transmitted from the pious predecessors. Who? من الصحابة الكرام والتابعين الفخام The sahabas were the students of the Prophet and the students of the companions.
So here, stop. A person will say to you, I take the Qur'an and I take the Sunnah. The مفرق الطرق The thing that will really allow you to know that if this person is real or if he's telling the truth is when you say to them this verse that you have used for this point who from the sahabas understood it in this way? Who from the early generation who the Prophet praised? Because look what the Prophet said.
The Prophet said something very powerful. Look what he said. He said, my ummah is going to be divided.
Seventy two sects. Seventy three sects, sorry. Seventy three groups.
The ummah سَتَفْتَرِقُ أُمَّتِي عَلَىٰ تَلَاتٍ وَسَبْعِينَ فِرْقًا Seventy three groups. كُلُّهَا فِي النَّارِ All of them are in hellfire. إِلَّا وَاحِدًا Except for one.
Not two. Not three. Not four.
This goes against those who say those who say that everyone's going to go to Jannah from different places. This group, that group, this group, and this group. We're all going to be inshallah from different parts of Jannah.
No. When it comes to belief system, there's only one saved group. There's not multiple groups.
إِلَّا وَاحِدًا The Prophet spoke. The most eloquent man. He said وَاحِدًا He didn't say two.
He said one group. Who are they now? The Sahabas, they said, who are these people? The Messenger of Allah. He didn't say it is so and so.
So and so. The Messenger gave what is called a Sifatul Kashifa. He gave a continuous description.
Anyone who comes with is from that saved group. You don't have to you don't have to sign an allegiance to a particular Imam or a Sheikh or you don't have to meet a person and shake his hand or none of that. You don't have to have a bond with a group of people.
No, you don't have to. This is all that's needed from you. What is it? مَن كَانَ عَلَى مِثْلِ مَا أَنَا عَلَيْهِ لِيَوْمَ وَاصْحَابِهِ Anyone who is upon that which me and my companions are upon now.
So if you've told me a verse and you really can't take that verse back to an interpretation of a companion, then I'm worried about you. You're scaring me. You're coming with a newly introduced belief now.
Because I was told that the saved group is the ones who are what? Who are upon that which the Prophet was upon and that which his companions were upon. So if a person is holding on to the view of the companions. Even if that view is weak.
But the Sahaba said it. We will respect you because you're holding on to the statements of the companions. And all it now then takes is it's an Ijtihadi related issue.
It's an Ijtihadun Sa'ikh. It's a permitted difference of opinion because you've got a group of companions. Even though they will still say we don't agree with that view of Ibn Abbas or that view of so and so because of another Sahabi statement.
But we will not take you out of the fold of Ahlus Sunnah. Or you will not be taken out of the fold of Ahlus Sunnah because you're holding on to a view of Sahabas. Now I want to say something.
If a person takes the Qur'an, the Sunnah and the consensus. Pay attention. He takes the Masdar-ul-Talaqi.
Masdar-ul-Talaqi means the source in which you take your religion from. We Ahlus Sunnah, I hope we're from them Insha'Allah Ta'ala. We take our religion from the Qur'an.
We take it from the Sunnah and we take it from the consensus of the early generation. Okay. And I say early generation because it's hard to affirm consensus.
It's hard to confirm it after the Sahabas. It's hard. Not that it can't be done, but it's hard.
And I'll bring the statement of Sheikh Hussein Ta'ala Insha'Allah Ta'ala. If anybody doesn't take those evidences, doesn't take the Qur'an or the Sunnah or the consensus, then he is an innovator and the proof is not established against him. The proof is not established against him.
This is the statement of Abu Qasim Hibatullah Al-Lalakaiyyum and Imam Abu Uthman Al-Sabuniyyum. A imam said this. Sheikh of Islam mentioned this.
If a person says, I'm not going to take the Qur'an as an evidence or I'm not going to take this Sunnah. He uses his logic. That person is an innovator.
That minute he said it. There's no need to bring the proof against him. No, no, no.
He's already done it himself. No one's going to, everyone's going to deal with him as an innovator. لا تقام عليه الحجة Proof is not established on him.
Okay. But if a person goes against Ahlul Sunnah in an أصل من أصولها A fundamental principle. Like for example, he goes against Ahlul Sunnah in a مسألة الإيمان.
Okay. He takes maybe the view of the مرجع or the view of the خوارج, then تقام عليه الحجة The proof is established on him. So there's fundamental points that I want to mention that Ahlul Sunnah wal-Jama 'ah believe that if a person goes against those fundamental, the proofs are established on him.
Okay. If he goes against the مصدر التلقي the source of where we take our evidence from, no, no, no, no. You're an innovator straight away.
And a proof is not established on you. But if you go against Ahlul Sunnah in the fundamental issues that are in there, the proof is going to be established on you. You're going to be told what you're upon is wrong.
You're going to be advised accordingly. And those أصول, I'm going to mention them fast and we can go over them Inshallah Ta'ala later. The first one is الأسماء والصفات Allah's names and attributes.
Number two, الصحابة Companions and the position of the companions. القضاء والقدر The predestination and what Allah has ordained for creation. Number three, مسائل الأسماء والأحكام Names and rulings are found in the Qur'an like إيمان and كفر and et cetera.
And last but not least, الوعد والوعيد The warnings and the promises in the Qur 'an and how do we deal with them. These are five أصول that you find in books of اعتقاد If anybody goes against أهل السنة in those five, proof is established against them. If he persists upon them, then he's an innovator and the dealing of the innovators will come into place.
These five, Shaykh al-Islam al-Taymiyyah talks about them in عقيدة الواسطية He summarized them all. A person studies it there. Also, أبو بكر إسماعيلي in his كتاب اعتقاد أئمة الحديث He mentions it there.
عقيدة السلف أصحاب الحديث أثمان الصابوني He mentions it there as well. أبو قاسم التييمي He mentions it in his كتاب الحجة في بيان المحجة أبو قاسم التييمي He mentions it أبو قاسم حبت الله لألك He mentions it in his كتاب أصول اعتقاد أهل السنة It's in the books of عقيدة The third thing that I want to mention is if a person comes with so many sub-branches, for example, he says, a man can shave his beard. Okay, that's a fiqh issue.
It's a فرع. It's not even a fundamental issue. It's a sub-branch.
Okay, even though that's a question because it is a consensus, by the way, maybe the example might not be correct. But let's say he says, for example, anal sex is permissible. And then he says, for example, you can drink with your right and left.
And then he says, for example, music is halal. And then he says many fiqh issues. He brings them and he says permissible, permissible, permissible, permissible, permissible.
These are for all sub-branches. They are what? They are sub-branches. These فرع now make it advice.
You've got established rules. Proofs are going to be established upon you. If you persist, you're an innovator.
Okay. That is what the scholars mentioned. In the Dalai Kalimah, you find two groups of people.
They are extreme, either in exaggeration or extreme in negligence. Who are they? There's a group who say, everything you need to establish the proof against the person, you need to take the proof. And another group of people, no, no, no, no.
I don't establish proof on anybody. He said a mistake, he's off the manhaj. So as I mentioned, is what the Salaf said.
I can put all their speech in context, but it's better just to give the framework. Insha'Allah. Right now, you've given a lot of detail on why we should leave alone innovators and not even sit with them, as you said.
But my question is, what if you have an individual, like there are many, many individuals in the world today who are not openly calling to innovation. Do we treat them the same as the other innovators that you're speaking about? Without a doubt, if you look at the books of the Sunnah, you look at the books of the scholars, books of hadith as well. The scholars, they do distinguish between the one who calls to his innovation and the one who doesn't.
If a person is not calling to his innovation, he takes a total different ruling from the one who isn't calling to it. So if he's calling and if he isn't calling, it's two different rulings. So would you not agree that many of the speakers today are not calling to their innovation? They're rather calling to doing good deeds, like reading the Qur'an, being good to your parents.
Is that something you'd agree with? You see, that's the thing. I mean, when I say a lot of the speakers, then that would mean I would have to look at statistics and I would have to. I don't know.
I can't say all of them or a majority of them. But what I can say is there are a portion of them who I can definitely say that calling to misguidance is not a person has to come and say, I'm Dajjal or I am here to misguide you. It's done in different ways and different forms.
I mean, let me just read a speech on you, which I think is very relevant to the question you just asked. Yeah, this statement of Sheikh Al-Islam Al-Taymiyyah that they're away from what was really important for them to understand. Sheikh Al-Islam Al-Taymiyyah, he says, فَالْبِدْعَةُ تَكُونُ فِي أَوَّلِهَا شِبْرًا The innovation at the beginning is just a handspan.
Okay. ثُمَّ تَقْثُرُ فِي الْأَتْبَاعِ حَتَّى تَصِيرَ أَذْرَاعًا وَأَمْيَالًا وَفَرَاصِغًا And the followers, that handspan innovation becomes an arm span. And then it becomes a mile.
And then it becomes continents. It just grows, the innovation. So it's not like you're going to see a big innovation straight away.
It creeps in. Another statement, Mufadhal Ibn Muhalhal said, لَوْ كَانَ صَاحِبُ الْبِدْعَةِ If the innovator, the person is taking knowledge from, إِذَا جَلَسْتُ If you sat with him, if I sat with him, يُحَدِّثُكَ He will tell you, if you sat with him, and as soon as you sat with him, he told you his innovation, يُحَدِّثُكَ بِبِدْعَةِ حَذَّرْتَهُ وَفَرَرْتَ مِنْهُ You would run away from him. You would not want to sit with him.
وَلَكِنَّهُ يُحَدِّثُكَ بِأَحَدِيثَ السُّنَّةِ He will tell you the Ahadith of the Sunnah. فِي بُدُوِ مَجْلِسِ At the beginning of the gathering, the first time that you meet him, he will call you to the Sunnah. This is what he will do to you.
ثُمَّ يُتْقِلُ عَلَيْكَ بِدْعَةَهُ Then he will put the innovation into you. فَلَعَلَّهَ تَلْزَمُ قَلْبَكَ فَمَتَى تَخْرُجُ مِنْ قَلْبِهِ And then it connects to your heart. And then when would it actually leave your heart? Okay, but what I can see from my personal experience is many of the people giving da'wah, they might not necessarily be clear-cut innovators like you're saying.
But at the same time, you might not even put them into the category of clearly, as you mentioned, understanding the Qur'an and the Sunnah based upon the understanding of the companions. Rather, it's unclear exactly where they fall in between those two groups. Those kind of people, they're still calling you to good deeds.
You can listen to them. Okay, that's a very important thing, which is we would have to really ask ourselves, what makes a person be a person who's doing good and who isn't really doing good? I would say my question would be, what your message, who's it following? What protocol is it following? What order and sequence is it following? Are you making the order for the da'wah? You're just making it as you wish? Because for me, da'wah is tawqifiyah, meaning it's something that's set. You and I can't come and make our way in da'wah.
Okay, but when you say for you, that means someone else can have a different opinion. No, I'm saying when the Prophet said, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, وَأَنَّ هَذَا السَّرَاطِ مُسْتَقِيمًا فَاتَّبِعُوا This is my path, follow it. Okay, there's certain things we'd agree are good deeds.
Reading the Qur'an is a good deed. We'd agree on that. And I'm saying that that person should call to the Qur'an.
He should call to righteous actions as in plain sunnah. He should call to that. But that shouldn't be the essence of his da'wah.
Okay, the essence of his da'wah should be then? Calling to tawheed and calling to the people to stay away from innovation. That's what la ilaha illallah stands on. And Imam Muslim narrated this in his sahih min riwayat Anas ibn Malik that the Prophet said, لا تقوم الساعة The hour will not strike.
حتى لا يقال في الأرض Until no one is saying on the earth Allah Allah. That will come a time when people are not even saying Allah Allah. Meaning it's become total ignorance of who Allah is and the meaning of Allah and the meaning of la ilaha illallah.
People won't even say Allah anymore. And you know why that will come about? It will come about when people start becoming generic in their da'wah. They don't really want to touch the real problems that the community are facing.
So let's just be more general. That to be very honest some speakers if you actually take their da'wah and you replace the word Allah with God then a Christian can listen to it. Okay.
Would you agree that there are some da'wahs out in the world today that are calling to tawheed? No doubt. No doubt about that? Yes. So what is wrong with having one speciality calling to tawheed and someone else calling to generic good deeds? What is the problem with that? As I just said da'wah is not something that you and I choose what we want to start with and how we want to do it.
Da'wah is set. The Prophet s.a.w. in the ayah what did he say? قُلْ هَذِهِ سَبِيلِ أَدْعُوا إِلَىٰهِ عَلَىٰ بَصِيرَةٍ أَنَا وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِي وَسُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ وَمَا أَنَا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ This ayah says قُلْ هَذِهِ سَبِيلِ This is my path. أَدْعُوا إِلَىٰهِ I call to Allah عَلَىٰ بَصِيرَةٍ with insight I call to Allah and who else does the same thing? Those who follow me.
So the people have to follow the messenger and how they call to Allah. That's clear in the ayah. The ayah is so clear.
You and I are not... We don't have the rights to come and say, you know, I don't want to call to Tawheed. It's a controversial issue. I'm here to bring people together, you know, and I'm going to look for topics that can bridge people.
That's a fallacy. That's a mistaken belief. Even in the modern world where we have so many different groups opposing Islam, so many enemies of Islam, so many issues, can't we just come together and work together on that and leave our differences to a side considering we've got big, big problems that we are facing? That is not the truth when you look at it.
Because if you look at the great scholars like Ibn al-Jawzi, Abdul Ghani, Abdul Wahid al-Maqdisi, Sheikh al-Islam ibn Taymiyyah, they said that the internal enemy, meaning the innovator, is far worse than the external enemy that's outside. I'll give you an example. If you're under siege and you have a fortress around you, but there is a person in this building right now who wants to open the window for the disbelievers or the non-Muslims or other people to enter the house, you have to start dealing with this person inside first.
So when you try ignoring this person and you say, you know, we will work together on what we agree on and we will put our differences aside on what we differ on, then the truth really is, the minute he gets, he will expose the mistakes within Islam and ponder on history. وَالتَّرِيخُ يُعِيدُ نَفْسَهَا History repeats itself. That's a reality.
What destroyed the Abbasid Khilafah? It was the Rafidah who opened the doors for the non-Muslims. Who brought the Tatar into the Muslim world and made the Muslims get killed and massacred? They were the innovators. Who placed Sheikh of Islam, Imam of Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jama'ah, Al-Imam al -Mubajjal, Al-Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in prison behind bars of the issue of khalq al-Qur'an? Who... Ibn Hazm has a book called he has a book called الفصل في الملل والأهواء والنحل He mentions in his book, the people who pushed the ideology that the Qur'an is not preserved was the Rafidah.
Ibn Hazm is saying this. When they said that the Qur'an was changed by Abu Bakr and Umar, it allowed the non-Muslims to say that your text is not preserved, why are you talking about ours? Even though Allah says in the Qur'an, cooperate with each other upon bi'r and taqwa. How do you reconcile that? Now this is very important that's understood correctly.
First of all, we have to agree that we as individuals, we do not like innovation nor do we like innovators. OK, agreed, I'm with you on that. If we agree upon that, if there happens a situation, a calamity befalls the Muslim, and I have been known and I have had a position regarding debunking, dismantling, calling against innovation.
I have been known, my position is well known when it comes to people who go against Allah's commandments, who fall into sins. It's well known. I have defended the Sunnah to my ability.
If a calamity befalls the Muslims and there's no way that this calamity can be solved unless the Muslims with their differences come together to solve this issue, shara'an is permissible. There's nothing wrong with this. Right this moment with... But that doesn't mean we overlook our differences.
No, not in any way, shape or form. I still have differences with you and I'm not going to accept that from you. But right now, they're going to close the masjids.
And that's a problem you're going to face and I'm going to face. And we take this evidence from Surah Hudaybiyah, the treaty of Hudaybiyah. The Messenger, peace be upon him, he sat with the non-Muslims and he came to a contract with them and a treaty with them.
Ibn Al-Qayyim in his great book, he said, he mentions that this can be used for the innovators and the fursaq, the criminals, the wrongdoers, and even the innovators. He uses that to say that you can sit with them if it has a common good for the Muslims. But that being said, your position, your view, your stance, it is well known.
Regarding innovators, your position is known. Regarding innovation itself, you've spent your time spreading the sunnah. And to be very frank with you, and to be honest, a lot of people, they don't understand that calling to that sunnah right now and pushing the sunnah today has become very hard.
It's always going to be hard, but it's become even more harder today than any other time historically. Let me quote for you the hadith of the Prophet, alayhi salatu wasalam, and what he said. And I want to bring you the kalaam of the ulama and how they understood, how they understood that particular, how they understood that particular hadith.
Look what he said, al-imam al-sabuni, he said, wa man tamassaka al-yawma bi -sunnah. Anyone who holds on to the sunnah now, he's an imam of the early generation, imam al-sunnah. He's talking about his time.
Imagine now, he said, wa man tamassaka al-yawma bi-sunnah. Anyone who holds on to the sunnah today, which sunnah? bi-sunnah rasulillahi sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. Wa amila biha, and he implements it.
Wa istiqama alayha, and he's steadfast upon it. Wa da'a ilayha, and he calls the people to it. Kana ajruhu, his reward today is, awfara wa akthara, more vast, more bigger, more greater, min ajri man jara ala hadhihi aljumlati min al-i'tiqadi fi awa 'ili al-islami wal-millah.
Then the early generation. Then the companions themselves as well. Why? Idhir rasulul mustafa, because the messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, qala he said, lahu for those people is, ajru khamseena, the reward of 50.
Faqeela, the companions, they said, khamseena minhum, 50 from them, and the Prophet said, la, no, minkum from you. 50 from the companions. We know that today, the ghurba, the person calling to the sunnah, the standing up to the sunnah, implementing the sunnah, has become very hard.
Look at Imam Saburi. Is that really the case Mustafa? Without a shadow of a doubt. In a modern day world, do you think that calling to the sunnah is a difficult thing? Yeah, the mocking, name-calling, that's, mimma la yantadhu fihi kafshan, as the Arabs say, two goats will not headbutt on that.
That's a reality in front of us. Another statement I'm going to mention, insha'Allah ta'ala, and I think it's important. Abu Uthman al-Sabuni mentions, bisanadi wajadatan, hatta balagha ibn shihab al -zuhri, from ibn shihab al-zuhri, that he said, ta'aleemu sunnatin, teaching one sunnah, afdhalu is more virtuous, min ibadatin mi'atay sana, than doing ibadah for 200 years.
And this is the truth, wallahi, when you look at many people, people are now more fascinated with the person who pray qiyam ul-layl, a person who will fast the fast of Dawud, and I'm not belittling that. I think it's a righteous action, and I think a Muslim should work to be doing that. I'm not belittling that.
But what I'm saying is that people will be mesmerized with that person. They will be mind boggled. They will be gobsmacked and say, wow, this person is righteous.
He's the remaining of the companions, the way they deal with him. But if a person stood up and he spent his life and dedicated his energy to warning against innovation, exposing innovators, for them it's like, yeah, all he does is he backbites people. All he does is he backbites people.
And that isn't the case. To call to the sunnah and to offer an innovation was the da'ibus salaf, it was the doing of the salaf and their way. And the thing is, how would we deal with these texts? Are we going to rub them off the books? We're going to peel them out? This is the reality.
You cannot ignore this. These are multitude. I am only taking a pinch of it, because we only have... I think we agree with the issue of innovation and I think you brought enough evidence and sufficient amount of evidence to prove your point there.
The issue still remains, and I go back to it again, that you're sitting here saying that someone who is calling people to do good deeds, as well as tawhid, but tawhid is not their main da'wah. But they're still calling people to read the Qur'an, be good to their parents. Okay, you know you're repeating this point.
Let me give you some examples. This point you keep stressing on. As you're saying, they're actually doing something wrong and bad.
Okay, let me give you a story. This story, inshallah ta'ala, will shine some light for you. Okay, again, as I said, I'm going to be Ibn Ilayh al-Karim, every single thing I bring, I'm going to bring stories from the books of Hadith, from the tarajim of the scholars, the biography of the scholars, and quotes of people who we, when I cannot, we're not like even a nails.
And before I mention these quotes, I want to say something. I want to say, don't judge and memorize this principle. annahu la yuhkamu ala shay'in Nothing can, we can never make a judgment based on something, bi atharihi wa nata'ijih based on the outcome and the results that somebody produces.
We need to look at your principles that you stand on and what are you, what's your message? If you're doing humanitarian aid and you're supporting the needy, that's good. That is good. But Bill Gates does that as well.
Warren Buffett does that as well. That doesn't make their message right. Does that make sense? Missionaries do that as well.
They go to Africa and they feed the needy. They build wells. But they're not calling to the Quran.
Exactly. That doesn't make. These people are.
So let me, I'm going to show you examples because those are disbelievers. Now I'm going to show you people who are believers. Al-Imam al-Dahabi mentioned, he said, Kana al-Mansur, Abu Ja'far al-Mansur is a Abbasid leader.
He used to venerate, Yu'addim ibn Ubaidin. He used to venerate Amr ibn Ubaid. Who's Amr ibn Ubaid? Amr ibn Ubaidin is the leader.
The head. Him and Wasim al-Ata, they were the head of the deviated group we refer to as the Mu'tazila. The Mu'tazila are the people who are clearly innovators.
We're again, to remind you, we're talking about people who are not open about the innovation. We don't know whether they're clearly innovators. They're halfway in between.
We're not clear about them. That's who we're talking about. I'm going to come to that point.
That's a very good point. I see where you're coming. It's a good point.
Mansur, Abu Ja'far al-Mansur, he said, you know, Al-Dahabi is saying, the leader of the Muslims got fooled with Amr ibn Ubaidin. Just like you're seeing this person that you're talking about to be a person of, you know, good, what's the problem? He's going into good. Abu Ja'far al-Mansur felt the same thing about Amr ibn Ubaidin, his leader from the head of the Mu'tazila.
He saw nothing wrong with him. Look what he did. Amr ibn Ubaidin entered onto the leader of Abu Ja'far al-Mansur.
They had a conversation. And when he was about to leave, Abu Ja'far al-Mansur said, I'm going to give you something. Here, what money do you need? Give money to him.
And he looked at him and said, I haven't come here for money and I don't want your money. And he walked away from him. And it's a more detailed story, but I don't want to go into it.
As he was walking away, Abu Ja'far al-Mansur, he said, كلهم يمشي روي, كلهم يطلبوا صيد غير عمر بن عبيد. All of them have an ulterior motive. All of them have something they want.
Look what he said. But Amr ibn Ubaid is a real man. He's a real righteous man.
What's wrong with him? That's what he's trying to say. Look what Al-Dhahabi said. He said, اغتر بزهده.
He got deceived by the asceticism of Amr ibn Ubaid. He saw Amr ibn Ubaid to be a person who doesn't want the dunya, wants the akhirah. And so he thought to himself, whoa, this guy is good.
وإخلاصي, he got deceived by the sincerity of Amr ibn Ubaid. وأغفل بدعته. And he was heedless to his innovation.
So many people are looking at this man in the good things that he sees and he says, but there's innovation here right now. Another story. That's not answering my question.
You understand that, right? It does answer the question because this person's calling to Salah, calling to Zakat, calling to Salam, calling to the recitation. With no clear innovation upon them. No clear innovation.
They just haven't made it clear. They haven't made it clear upon the Sunnah. Yeah, and they're not calling to Tawheed as much as you'd like them to.
They're calling to Tawheed, but they're not as much as you'd like them to. But they're still calling to good deeds. It's the person's calling.
I mean, when we say, OK, a person's calling to Tawheed, I myself am not saying that, you know, how many times, how many videos has he said it into? OK, it's not the main call. It's not the main call dawah. Then I'm now saying that he's not following the procedure and the sequence set by the Prophet.
OK. I can question him because the dawah of the Messenger alaihissalatu wassalam was built upon Tawheed. That was what he was built on.
I mean, Nabila Nuh, let's take Nabila Nuh for an example. Sah? Nuh alaihissalam, what do you know about his message? He was calling people for 950 years only to worship Allah alone. How much people followed Nabila Nuh? Allah said, وَمَا أَمِنَ مَعَهُ إِلَّا قَلِيدٌ Only little believed in Nabila Nuh.
He didn't care about numbers. The people who followed Nuh was a mount that can go on an ark with animals in there. You know, animals were in there as well.
He, that Nabila Nuh, we know his message was built upon Tawheed. You don't know anything more than that about him. So how can I see a da'i? And I don't see any of that.
All I see is talking about political engagement. He's talking, he's an activist. He's talking about social problems.
Only, only. Fair point. OK, I understand.
No, it's a fair point. But even like you just mentioned numbers just now, some of these speakers, who like you're saying, don't necessarily focus on Tawheed, but they're still calling to good deeds. Some of them have millions and millions of views on their videos and millions and millions of followers on social media.
So you're sitting here and saying that Allah is misguiding millions of Muslims, not because they're drinking alcohol or they're falling into zina, but because they want to watch an Islamic lecture? Well, I think that that point is أوهام بيت العنقبوت It's a very weak argument. The reason why I say it's a weak argument is because, I mean, I had priests and Christians, when they argue, they say the same argument. They say, so you Muslims are trying to say that Allah was fooling the Christians when he changed Jesus into whoever he changed him into.
And he wants to fool the Christians. Allah has a way, subhanahu wa ta'ala, اختباراً للانتحان He tests his creation. Allah tests, subhanahu wa ta'ala.
And the way Allah tests, subhanahu wa ta'ala, is good and bad. وَنَبْلُوكُم بِالشَّرِّ وَالْخَيْرِ فِتْنَةً وَإِلَيْنَا تُرْجَعُونَ Just because you have numbers doesn't indicate that you are upon the truth. And it doesn't mean Allah is guiding or misguiding.
Why? Expand on that. Because the Prophet ﷺ, as I said in a hadith, صلى الله عليه وسلم عليه He said that the ummah, 73 groups are going to all go to the hellfire, except one, not 72, are going to go into the hellfire. And one could be the biggest.
That goes against many of the textual evidences, which Allah says, وَقَلِيلٌ مِّنْ عِبَادِيَ الشَّكُورِ Little from My slaves show gratitude. وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ The majority of the people don't know. وَإِن تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَنْ فِي الْأَضْضِ يُضِيلُكَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ If you obey the overwhelming majority of people, they will misguide you.
Rather, the Messenger ﷺ, he told us in a hadith, the hadith of Ibn Abbas, in Sahihin. The Prophet ﷺ, he said, عُرِضَتْ عَلَيَّ الْأُمَمِ Their nations were presented to me. فَرَأَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ وَمَعَهُ رُهَيْطٌ I saw a prophet and with him was a small number.
وَالنَّبِي وَمَعَهُ الرَّجُلُ وَالرَّجُلَان I saw a prophet, he has one or two people with him. And then he said, وَرَأَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ وَمَعَهُ الرَّجُلُ وَالرَّجُلَان وَلَيْسَ مَعَهُ أَحَدٌ There is no one with him. So what are we gonna say now? That that prophet was misguiding the people? That his message was wrong? No, of course not.
So we can't say that. Number doesn't really show anything. Abdullah ibn Saud and many of the Salaf, they said, أَنتَ الْجَمَعَةَ وَإِن كُنتَ وَهَدًا You are the Jama'a even if you're by yourself.
Number is nothing. If we take that argument, then the Christians should be upon the Haqq. They are more than us in number.
Yeah, okay, I agree. Do you think, on a slight tangent, do you think your stance is a little bit immature? I've heard some other people who have also held the same stance as you, but they feel like they've grown out of it. They've matured.
And therefore they've left that stance. You see, that's the sad reality. It's actually not maturity.
That person hasn't matured. That's what my honest answer is. That person has actually gone astray.
And I said at the beginning of my discussion, مَا يُجَادِلُ فِي آيَاتِ اللَّهِ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَلَا يَغْرُوكَ تَقَلُّبٌ فِي الْبِلَادِ The people are turning away from this can only be, as the Prophet said, صلى الله عليه وسلم فَإِن لَّمْ يَسْتَجِيبُوا لَكَ فَعَلَمْ أَنَّمَا يَتَّبِعُونَ أَهْوَاهُمْ If they don't obey you, Muhammad, in all of that which you said, then remember that they are following their desires. You see, I ask those same people questions. I surrender and I give in and I say, you know what, I am immature and your stance is maturity.
How do I not know you're going to say 10 or 15 or 20 years from now that I was immature again? That stance of mine was wrong again. My current stance is... Exactly. I see, because I've done it before.
Exactly, you've said it before. And this is a statement that Hudayfah ibn al-Yaman r.a mentioned before. He said that from a person's destruction and from a person really being destroyed is that you accepted something once upon a time and you saw it to be good and now you're rejecting it.
And the opposite. You are rejecting what you once upon a time accepted. And then he said something powerful.
He said, إِيَّاكَ وَالتَّلَوُّنَ فَإِنَّ الدِّينَ اللَّهِ وَاحِدٌ What does that mean? Don't change colors. Don't become this and that. The religion of Allah is one.
It doesn't make sense that you're changing so much but the religion is really one. But the reason they're changing is because their knowledge is growing. They're studying year on year, year on year.
They're becoming more knowledgeable and they've seen the errors of their previous ways. Some of these speakers have attended some of the most prestigious universities in the world and they've continued to study after that and seen the errors of their past ways. Not if they've studied in places that doubts have been brought forward to them and they presented themselves to shubhas and calamities and hardships and they've become misguided from that.
That doesn't really mean that they've matured. What's happened to them is they've been indoctrinated and shaitaan has had his way with him. Because the Prophet ﷺ, he told us, عَلَيْهِ ﷺ يَا مُقَلِّبَ الْقُلُوبِ The one who tosses and turns the heart.
ثَبِّتْ قَلْبِي عَلَى دِينِكِ And in the Qur'an, Allah says, رَبَّنَا لَا تُزِقْ قُلُوبَنَا بَعْدَ إِذْ هَدَيْتَنَا رَبَّنَا لَا تُزِقْ قُلُوبَنَا بَعْدَ إِذْ هَدَيْتَنَا Deviation happens. People go and they change. Wasim al-Ata was from the students of Hasan al-Basri.
And he left Hasan al-Basri's gathering, walked away from him. How can someone so knowledgeable be misguided like that? How can that happen? I mean, shaitaan is, if we say knowledge, shaitaan gathered the most knowledge. I mean, he's lived through everything.
He's been in Jannah. He saw, he heard, he spoke to Allah Azza wa Jalla. You see, it's arrogance and stubbornness.
And this guidance that you have to understand وَمَنْ يُهِنِ اللَّهُ فَمَا لَهُمْ مِنْ مُكْرِمٍ If Allah chooses to humiliate you and not give you guidance, then there's no one who can give it to you. This is Allah's will. I mean, look at Abu Talib.
Anyone better than Abu Talib in what he did for the Prophet ﷺ? His uncle. His uncle, Abu Talib. Abu Talib made poetry for the Prophet.
He said, وَلَقَدْ عَلِمْتُ بِأَنَّ دِينَ مُحَمَّدٍ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ دِينًا لَوْ لَا الْمَلَامَةُ وَحِدَارَ مُسَبَّتِي لَوَجَدْتَ لِي بِذَاكَ سَبْحَ مُبِينًا He said that, Muhammad, your religion, I would have taken it. I would have accepted it if I wasn't scared of the blame of the blamers and those who are going to criticize me for it. You see? So Abu Talib was boycotted from Quraysh for Nabiullah Muhammad.
He was thrown into a valley. He starved. He was boycotted.
He went through hardship. And Allah said to the Prophet, إِنَّكَ لَا تَهْدِيمًا أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهِ هَدِيمًا يَشَعُّرُ Imagine if Nabiullah Muhammad is trying to... The truthful, the most honest, the most caring individual is giving you a message of Islam and you didn't take it from him. You've known him to be trustworthy.
He is your son and you choose not to take his message. To be honest, that person, would he take a message from a scholar, a student of knowledge? So it's not that the person is mature to be very honest. It's giving it fancy names that I've matured out of this and I've become matured.
It's like calling alcohol juice and it's calling drugs food and calling interest... calling riba interest. When did it become interest? Allah is fighting with it subhanahu wa ta'ala. So when they call it maturity, it's given a fancy name.
And this is something known by Shaytan. يُسَمُونَهُ بِغَيْرِ اسْمِهِ They give it a name other than it. The real name is misguidance.
You've just become misguided. That's what's happened to you. You have not become mature.
How far do we take this? Because you mentioned at the start, before we spoke, you said that... you mentioned a line of poetry which went something along the lines of everybody makes mistakes when they speak. So someone falls into a mistake, someone falls into an error and we label him an innovator. Other people fall into mistakes, other people fall into errors and it's just a mistake.
You know, he's still from Ahl al-Sunnah. Why is this contradiction present? You see, that's a very good question. We look at نوعية الخطأ We look at the type of mistake that the person falls into.
There's no one who's free from mistakes. Wallahi, everyone is going to do mistakes. Everyone's going to come with shortcomings.
You see, the issue isn't that the person just done a mistake. It's what type of mistake have they come with. So we look at that type of mistake.
We observe it, we analyze it, we look at it. If that mistake has reached innovation, then we deal with it like an innovation. What mistake? What kind of mistake? Give me an example of a mistake that reaches innovation.
An aqeedah mistake? For example, a person says that Abu Bakr and Umar and Uthman and Ali are all in the hellfire, for instance. Or he says Abu Bakr and Umar are in the hellfire. That's an extreme.
That's a creedal issue, right? So it's a fundamental issue this person is going against, right? Yeah. So, or a person says, I don't want to take single iteration in a aqeedah. Okay.
Or... The names and attributes of Allah, is this a fundamental issue? A fundamental issue. Imam An-Nawawi fell into that? But we still call him from Ahl al-Sunnah? Beautiful, this is a good question now. Now, you see, you're asking a question of whether we're going to apply this issue of taking a person out of the Sunnah or apply or not apply it on Nawawi.
I'm talking about, first of all, taqseel. Fundamentally, we have to first of all agree that going against Allah's names and attributes is an innovation. The second question is, does it apply to Nawawi? Okay.
Yeah, the first one we agree upon. So I want to bring a principle out of here, which is not every individual who falls into innovation, is everybody who does innovation is not an innovator. Not everybody who falls into... Not everybody who does an innovation is an innovator.
No. Well, explain what you mean by that. The same is when everybody who does kufr is not a kafir.
Okay, fine. Explain what you mean by that. Beautiful.
If a person goes against Allah's names and attributes, Yes. and they fall short on that. Which is an innovation.
It's an innovation. Okay. I said before to you that the proof has to be established against them.
So we have to go to them and tell them what they are upon. It's wrong and it's incorrect. Remember, there are two things, three points.
Number one, if a person goes against Ahl al-Sunnah in their source of evidence, where they take their evidence from, where they deduct their ruling from. Which is? It's called Masdar At-Talaqi. It's Al-Kitab, Was-Sunnah, Wal-Ijmaa.
For Qur'an and Sunnah consensus. And the consensus. Okay.
Those are the three evidences. Yeah, if someone... Qur'an evidence for us following the Qur'an, the evidence that we need to follow the Qur'an is Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's ayah where he says, اِتَّبِعُوا مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا مِنْ دُونِهِ الْأَوْلِيَاتِ Follow that which has been sent to you from your Lord. And what has been sent from our Lord is the Qur'an and the Sunnah.
Both of them was sent from them. Because وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌّ يُوحَى فَسُنَّةُ النَّبِيُّ وَحْيٌّ ثَانٍ عَلَيْهِ مَا قَدْ أُطْلِقَ الْوَحْيَانِ The Sunnah is a second form of revelation. Pay attention.
The third thing is the consensus. What's the evidence for consensus? وَمَن يُشَقِقَ الرَّسُولَ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ الْهُدَىٰ وَيَتَّبِعْ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ نُوَلِّهِ مَا تَوَلَّ وَنُسْلِهِ جَعْنَمْ وَسَاءَتْ مَصِّرَاهُ Allah Ta'ala says anyone who goes against the path of the Prophet and the path of the Messenger and the path of the believers. When this ayah came down, the believers was who? The companions.
Good. So going against... What did Allah say after that? Then if you go against their path, then whichever destructive path that you've taken, we're going to keep you on that way. Meaning you're going to be upon your destruction and you're going to be upon your misguidance.
You went against three things, the Qur'an, the Sunnah and the way of the early generation. Allah says in another ayah, وَالسَّابِقُونَ الْأَوَّلُونَ مِنَ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالْأَنصَارِ وَالَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُونَهُمْ بِإِحْسَانٍ رَبِّيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَرَضُوا عَنْهُ So again, Allah says, those who go and follow the Muhajireen and the Ansar. Allah said, I am pleased with the Muhajireen and I'm pleased with the Ansar and I'm pleased with those who follow them.
So if you're not from it, we're not the Muhajireen, we didn't get that chance. And we're not from the Ansar, so we can only be from the third option which is to follow them. So if a person goes against Ahlul Sunnah in those three, the Qur'an, the Sunnah, the Ijma'a, then we don't have to establish the proof against them.
No problem. That's it. If a person goes against Ahlul Sunnah in five fundamental issues, the first one is Allah's names and attributes, or he goes against Ahlul Sunnah in the issues of the companions, or he goes against Ahlul Sunnah, for instance, in the issues of promises, wa'ad wal wa'eed.
So masa'il al-usma'i wal-usifat, masa'il al-as-sahaba, the issue of al-wa'ad wal-wa'eed, promises and warnings that are in the Qur'an, asma' wal-ahkam, names and rulings that are in the Qur'an, or the fifth is qadha and qadr. If a person goes against Ahlul Sunnah in those five, the proof needs to be established on. Okay, so Nawawi went against Ahlul Sunnah in one of those five.
Which is Allah's names and attributes. Yes, correct. But not in all its totality.
He affirmed Allah is above his throne, Nawawi. Okay, there were certain aspects. But there were some characteristics, of course, in his shara'ah of Sahih al -Muslim, in which he did do ta'weel in, which he didn't go according to the salaf regarding it.
But we will say that that is a mistake that came from Nawawi. But we won't say that he fell into innovation. Why? Because the person who says that would have to prove to me that the proof was established against Nawawi, and he chose not to follow it.
We're saying that in all the years Imam Nawawi was alive, and giving da'wah to Islam, and being involved in Islam, the truth wasn't established against him? You believe that? Of course, I'm going to have to have husn al-dhan of him. I see a man who's explaining the second most authentic book. I see a man who wrote serving the hadith of the Prophet ﷺ. I saw a man who dedicated his life to explaining the textual evidences.
That being said, he really loved and was passionate about the Sunnah of the Prophet ﷺ. That being said, if a person wants to take him out of Ahl as-Sunnah on a fundamental thing he went against, Ahl as-Sunnah, which is one of the five, he would have to clearly prove to me that Nawawi, the proof was established, and he became stubborn from it. If he doesn't, I'm not going to base it on speculation and all those years, and he clearly proved to me that it was established on him. Beautiful.
I apply the same thing to the speaker that we were speaking about earlier. True. Who is not Qunis Tawheed as much as you'd like him to, but he's also not open at innovation.
Why can't we use the same Khusma Ban for him? Has the proof been established against him? Have you spoken to him? That's the point now. Jameel, I agree with you. If a speaker is speaking and he falls short on a concept from the Usool of Ahl as-Sunnah, the proof needs to be established on him.
Okay. Tuqamu AAalayhi Al-Hujja The proof needs to be established on him. And the Mahajja, whatever is blinding him, needs to be removed from him.
If that hasn't been done, then no one has any rights to label him as an innovator. And when we're talking about someone who is not Qunis Tawheed as much as you'd like, which one of those five does this fall into? As in? As in, we have a speaker whose main Da'wah is not Qunis Tawheed, but he's Qunis to other good deeds. And you said to be an innovator, you have to fall in opposition to one of these five things.
So he's going against Masa'il Asma'i wal-Ahkam because the word Da'wah is a Shab'i term used in the Sharia. It has a definition. It means to call the people to Allah Azza wa Jalla and not to call the people to yourself so you can get more followers.
Because the Ayah says قُلْ هَذِهِ سَبِيلِي أَدْعُوا إِلَىٰهِ I call the people to Allah, not yourself. Okay. So if I see you calling to yourself, then I think there's a big flaw in your Da 'wah.
You need to be calling to Allah. And what does it mean calling to Allah? You're calling to His Rabubiyah. You're calling to His Uluhiyah.
You're calling to His Asma'i wal-Sifat. You don't have to use those terms that I just used. You don't have to use those terms.
Okay. Okay, I understand. Now we're talking about someone who is openly calling to the innovation.
According to your stance, we are not allowed to take knowledge from them. Agreed? No. Okay, then why was I in your class and you were teaching Al-Mu'alaqat? By Imam Abu Ma'ali Al-Juwayni.
Yes. Two responses. First of all... Sorry, just to clarify, he was not just an Ash'ari, he was the head of the Ash 'ari.
So let me make something clear. Nawawi is not an Ash'ari. Okay.
But Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali, Abu Ma'ali Al-Juwayni, Al-Fakhr Al-Din Al-Razi, Abu Bakr Ibn Al-Fawraq, Abu Bakr Al-Baqi, these are Ash'ari. Okay. But Nawawi is not Ash'ari, Ibn Hajar is not an Ash'ari, and Bayhaqia is not Ash 'ari.
Okay, and you taught Al-Mu'alaqat, which is one of the ones that you just said is an Ash'ari. It's so true. Okay, how do you explain this? Two responses.
The first response that Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah gave was that Imam Abu Ma 'ali Al-Juwayni did repent at his last moments. Okay. That's one statement.
Even though that itself, from the scientific perspective, to be very honest, Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah's statement, فيه نظر, there is a look to it. Because he only repented from one form of innovation to another form of innovation. Which was what? He left ta'weed and he went to tafweed.
So he's still an innovator. So he's still... That doesn't help you. Yeah, so... But Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah did say that.
Okay, fine. The second thing is a concept that we need to understand now. You asked me, can a person go and take knowledge from an innovator? Yes.
Okay. And I said to you what? You said no. I said to you no.
Jameel. Now... Because the asal is that it's not permissible. Okay.
The asal is what? It's not permissible. It's not permissible. Every issue that we give a general ruling for, there are exceptions.
Okay. And you can never use those exceptions to dismiss and dismantle and push away the foundation that we've agreed on. I'll give you an example.
Is drinking alcohol haram? Yes. What about if a person is in a moment where they have to drink alcohol? It's a necessity. What about if I use that as an argument and say that khamar is now permissible in this situation? So it's generally permissible now.
And I make that a general ruling. It's not permissible. So when we use the books of the innovators in situations that the scholars have seen that this book, even though the author is an innovator, but what is being taught here, what is within this book has not got a problem for the people to study.
There's not a problem. Because the truth, remember, is a lost property of the believer. So you take the good and you leave the bad, is what you're saying.
But when we say take the good and take the bad, we're saying that the person can't determine what is good from what is bad. Yeah, agreed. Otherwise, you can't.
Otherwise, you can't. You might fall into the bad if you can't determine. OK, I agree.
So if you say to me that a student of knowledge who's now starting to seek knowledge, he can take the good from an innovator and, you know, leave off the bad that is with him. Then I would say, is he a student or is he the teacher? How does he know what is good from what is bad? OK, I agree with you. And it goes against the concept of a student towards his teacher anyways.
Why would you seek knowledge from somebody who you believe is misguided in the first place? I say the same thing about Al-Warraqat. That's the point. You're not taking Al-Warraqat because of the author who wrote it.
You're taking Al-Warraqat because the people of the Sunnah told you to read it. OK. But here you're sitting under a person of innovation.
No one's told you. No, you can't determine what is right from what is wrong. You're a student of knowledge.
I think this is qiyasun ma'alfariq. You're using two different situations and you're trying to give the same ruling towards it. OK, I agree with you that if obviously if you're not knowledgeable enough to determine what is good and what is bad, then you can't do that because you might fall into the bad.
Plus, why would you even want to? You've got many people who teach a subject anyways. You can study Arabic from somebody else or you can study... That opens up a door to another issue. Al-Warraqat, for example, is a kitab in Usul al-Fiqh.
Why are we still relying on quote unquote innovators in sciences that are so important like Usul al-Fiqh? Have we not got anyone from Ahl al-Sunnah to learn this from? But I'm not going to be taking the book itself. I'm taking the shuruh and explanation of the people of the Sunnah. But I think the point I really want to draw here is that, you know, a book that a scholar or a person of innovation wrote and that book itself has been told by people of Sunnah, they said this book, we've looked at it, we've verified it, we checked it.
Even though the author is wrong, you can study it. And these are the points that we've underlined. Then comparing that to going to the door of Khalid or Zaid or Bakr min al-Nasr from the people who no one's told you who he is.
You just sat with him and you take knowledge from him and you're a beginner. And so you're saying, I know he's got innovation, but I'm only going to what? Take the good and leave the evil. But then that's the question.
Should you even sit with somebody who you're questioning his aqeedah, you're questioning your own teacher. Should you question your teacher in the first place? Well, isn't that bad manners? Isn't that, the poet did say, إذ الفتاح أسبعت قاديره فيه وكل ما لم يعتقد لم ينتفع If you don't believe in your teacher and you don't have faith in him, to be very honest, you don't benefit from him. It's when you lack faith in your teacher, that's when you tend to not benefit from him the way you should.
Therefore, the same can be said about the Arabic language. It's just the language. We could go to a non-Muslim university and learn Arabic as a language.
Therefore, what's the harm in taking it from him? See, this is the difference. Taking knowledge from the disbeliever and taking knowledge from the innovator. Again, it's a different situation.
The disbeliever, I'm not taking a religious concept from him. You might be taking Atheism from him. Well, I'm not allowed to then study from him.
You're not allowed to? No, of course. Every disbeliever comes with baggage. Oh, I can... Christianity, Judaism, Atheism, something.
Yeah, I cannot study from a person who's teaching me corruption in my belief, even a language. He's not teaching you your belief. He's teaching you a language.
And he's bringing doubts to me. No, not necessarily. He's just teaching you a language.
So Arabic, for example, can we learn Arabic from an innovator? You see, you're asking me a specific situation for a general ruling. OK. I would say to you, no, that's not allowed.
As a general ruling? Yeah, but there could be a particular person, I might say to them, you can go study there. Why is it not allowed? We're just learning a language. It doesn't stay as a language because the person is a Muslim.
Yes. A person who's a Muslim is closer to you than a non-Muslim. OK.
So you kind of... He will push you. He will give you that feeling. He's a Muslim brother of yours that has salams.
You give him salams. Second thing is, I mentioned the statement of Imam al-Shawqani r.a. Where it weakens the heart. It weakens the what? The heart to his statements.
So when he brings an Arabic example and he brings the ayah Ar-Rahmanu ala al -Arshi istawar let's say, the word istawar means it's stolen and he throws it in. And you're just a young, basic Arabic learner or he tells you that the kalam Innal kalamana filfuadi wa innama ju'ilal lisanu lima filfuadi dalila That speech doesn't come out. It's what's inside you.
Kalamun nafsi And you just take that in. You take it in. Even al-waraqat.
A person shouldn't study al-waraqat by themselves. They should be taught al-waraqat by a person of the sunnah who will correct the book and tell you what's right from what is wrong in it. I don't think anybody would go and open al-waraqat by themselves and understand what's being said there.
So are you really studying al-waraqat or are you studying from a person of the sunnah? Okay, understood. Do you think your stance is a little harsh? And especially what I mean by that is applying it in the modern day world. According to you, you shouldn't take knowledge from an innovator.
You shouldn't even sit with an innovator. Some of my family members, potentially, as an example, methadone may be classified according to you as an innovator. I can't sit with them.
وَالصَّحِبُ مَا فِي الدُّنْيَا مَعْرُوفًا I befriend them in the worldly issues that you need to deal with them. They have rights of a relative with you. قَرَابَة لَا شَكْر Family members, they have rights on you even if they're the worst of the worst.
They have rights on you in the sense the qaraba doesn't go. But they lose the religious connection with you anymore. The minute you see a person from Africa, the other side of the world, from where you're from, who's holding on to the sunnah, is more closer to you than your misguided family member, for instance, your brother who's misguided.
That doesn't mean that you cut the ties of kinship. See, we can't dismiss one evidence for the other. Okay, you have to... Allah says, فَهَلَا عَسَيْتُمْ إِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ أَن تُفْسِدُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَتُقَطِّعُوا أَرْحَامَكُمْ You can't cut the ties of kinship with your family.
The disbeliever that Allah Ta'ala says, وَإِنْ جَاهَدَكَ عَلَىٰ أَن تُشْرِكَ بِهِ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِعِلْمٌ فَلَا تُطْعُهُمَا وَصَحِبُهُمَا فِي الدُّنْيَا مَعْرُوفًا Befriend them in good. Even if they're telling you to go against Allah's religion, befriend them in good. In other words, whatever good that's there, befriend them.
Whenever it isn't anything to befriend them with, just leave them. Family members. Yeah.
So that's my answer. But it doesn't dismiss the concept of and the consensus that I brought to you that the Salaf brought to stay away from the innovators. So if your brother, for example, is preaching innovation to you, you don't say, he's my brother, I'm going to sit with him, I have to sit with him.
No, you walk away from him. You don't sit with him. But tomorrow you go to him and you greet him and you ask him how his children are doing and you leave him again.
Okay. How far do we take this? For example, you have someone who is openly upon the Sunnah but they might do conferences with people who are questionable. Do we boycott him? Is he now a person of innovation? You see, if a person is quoting to the Sunnah and he warns against innovation and he's known for his views to be upright and steadfast and he's in accordance to that which the pious predecessors were upon, we may differ on an individual.
Okay. We might differ on this person whether these principles apply on this person or not. I might say Bakar is a dis... He's a Mubtadia.
Zalul mudhil. He's a misguided person. And you, Shahid, might say, well, I don't see that applying on him.
You've misunderstood it. Maybe, Abdur Rahman, I think you have a personal issue against him. Now, just because we've differed on the application of these texts on this particular person doesn't mean we've differed upon the principles.
Okay, yeah, I understand that. I agree. So that's happened in the time of the Salaf.
They differed on the individuals. You find that Imam Al-Shafi'i would praise this person. And then you find that Imam Ahmad criticised that person.
And the general principle for this kind of situation, someone who is a ponderer of Sunnah but doing conferences with other people who are questionable, the general principle is... No, he shouldn't. He shouldn't do that. He shouldn't.
But he doesn't even agree with you that this person is an innovator in the first place. He doesn't agree with you... Clarify that for me. I don't understand.
The people he's doing the conference with... So you're saying that... Exactly. So my point is that you're saying that a person should not work with an innovator, correct? This is what I'm saying, you're saying. So if me and you both agree that this person is an innovator and then you're working with him, that's now a problem.
That's a problem. But you're saying, I don't believe this person is an innovator, as-salamu alaykum. OK.
I do believe that if a person says this, this is an innovator. But I don't believe this person said that. And I'm saying, no, I believe he said it.
Do you see my point? Yeah, so there could be a situation where the person who's working with the people in the conference, he doesn't believe them to be innovators, but you do. Yeah. And therefore you think, we don't differ on principle, me and this person.
OK, yeah, OK. Me and this person, we both agree, for instance, that you can't go against an oppressive leader who's not a disbeliever. OK.
We both agree on that. OK? OK. And that's something, mutual agreement, both of us.
But there's a person he's going to do a conference with and that person he's going to do the conference with believes that you can't go against a leader in a what? If he's an oppressive leader. OK. I then say to you, don't go to that person because it's what he believes.
He says to me, I don't agree with this. Right, right. Your application.
Not that I don't agree with the principle. I agree the principle is misguided. I don't agree that this brother believes this.
That's mutually, that's happened. You can't change that. That's happened through Islamic history.
That has happened through the time of the Salaf. They differ on individuals. Like, I can give you many examples.
Yahya ibn Ma'in is criticising Imam Shafi'i. Ahmad ibn Muhammad did not accept that from him. See my point? Yeah, yeah.
Imam Bukhari was criticised by Yahya al-Duhali. No one accepted it from him. And it's happened, people have misplaced particular rulings on people.
That has happened. There's no denying of that. OK.
But if you and I start discussing whether going against oppressive leader, for instance, who's not a disbeliever, he's an oppressive leader. You believe that you can. Now I have a problem with you because of what you believe.
The asr that you believe is wrong. OK, fine. So if there is a masjid, for example, that is clearly upon innovation, and we agree that they're upon innovation, I can't cooperate with them.
We shouldn't cooperate with them. We shouldn't give da'wah to them. Oh, you should definitely give da'wah to every and every person.
That's what Yahya will mention. But not a joint conference where we're together, we're sitting next to each other. No, you shouldn't.
You shouldn't do that. You shouldn't engage with them and you shouldn't. No, definitely you shouldn't.
But what do you mean? But there are times, I told you, situations that may arise. I want this to be put in correct context. OK.
There may arise masaleh aamah for the Muslims. A great benefit for the Muslims. OK.
Where Muslims are losing their masjids. And this is causing a problem to the Muslim community. So they come together and they voice their opinion to push this away and repel it against themselves as a joint force to remove this.
This, laa shakka, it can fall under wa ta'awwanoo AAal-birri wa taqwa wa laa ta 'awwanoo AAal-ithmi wa al-udhwan. But you as an individual, don't believe that the Deobandi and the Barelwi and all of these are guided. You believe they're misguided.
They're upon innovation. They are from the 72 in hellfire. That's what you believe.
Hadha aqeedatuka, that's your belief. But I'm working with them right now because of the truth. I'm trying to spread haqq.
The haqq is what's going to prosper here. I'm not doing it for this person. I'm trying to repel a harm that is there that I think should be removed.
That is shar'i. The Prophet did that sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. And he did it with the non-Muslims.
He did it with Quraysh. He signed a treaty with them. And Ibn al-Qayyim, who I don't think anybody should question his knowledge, had said that.
He took from that. But when you say a person is not calling to the sunnah, he's not calling to tawhid, he doesn't preach the haqq, he only talks about generic issues. And then I see him every conference, he's with the Deobandis, he's with the Barelwis, he's with them.
And he goes, we have to look at the unity of the Muslims. I now really question you. What are you about? What are you talking about? Because I don't see from your message, da'wah al-anbiya'i wal-rusul, the message that the Prophets and the rightly guided came with.
We don't know if Hussain Utham that he's given da'wah to those people? That doesn't dismiss the fact that he's not calling to the message of al-Islam in the way that the Prophet did. Comes back to that point, doesn't it? Definitely, your message is, your message itself. Before you, we talk about who you're associating with, you yourself, your message is not what the message of the Prophet was.
Are you with me? I mean, let's look at Nabillah Yusuf. He's in prison. The prisoners that were in prison with Yusuf, they saw a dream.
And when they saw the dream, they asked him for the interpretation of the dream. Nabillah Yusuf did not give them the response. And he didn't give them an interpretation of the dream until he said what? Ya sahiba'i al-sijni arbabu mutafarriquna qayrun amillahi al-wahid al-qahhar He spoke straight away.
He said, before I answer your question, tawheed. Tawheed. Okay.
I still feel like you're holding a very, very harsh, staunch view. According to you, we can't differ on anything in the religion. We always have to be robotic and agree on every single thing.
What can we differ on? No, no, definitely. That's not what I'm saying. And Allah, Tabaraka ta'ala, He's saying in the Qur'an, wa la yazaluna mukhtarifina illa marrahi marabbuk The people are gonna differ.
Differences is you and I, black and white. You know, there's differences. Allah says, wa khtilafu al-sinatikum wa alwanikum I speak a different language to you.
Differences is there. Every difference is madhmum, blameworthy. Okay.
So what are the permissible types of differences? Beautiful. That's the good thing now. The difference that we consider to be difference is that which does not oppose another textual evidence.
Also, it is not something that is strange, that hasn't been heard of, nor has been brought forward by the pious predecessors. So if you're taking an opinion, within the time of the Salaf, they had two or three views in this issue. You chose one of those views and we differed, then that issue is a difference of opinion, which is valid.
It's called khilaf, and it's called ijtihad, more like sa'if. And so I, on the other hand, meaning permitted, meaning acceptable. One of us is wrong and one of us is right.
We just can't put our thumb. Each one is saying, of course, my one is right. But it gives us that right to love one another, to actually say, you know what? You got Ibn Mas'ud in this issue, and I have Ibn Abbas in this issue.
Prime example. Ibn Mas'ud and Ibn Abbas differed upon an interpretation of a verse. Oh laamastumun nisaa.
The ayah. يَا الَّذِينَ عَمُنُوا إِذَا قُمْتُمْ إِنَّ صَلَاتِهِ فَأَقْسِلُوا وُجُهَاكُمْ وَإِيَدَيَكُمْ إِلَى الْمَرَافِقِ وَمْسَحُوا بِرُؤُسِكُمْ وَأَرْجُلُكُمْ إِلَى الْكَعْبَيْنِ وَإِن كُنتُمْ جُنُبًا فَاتَّخَرُوا وَإِن كُنتُمْ مَرَضًا أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ أو جاء أحد منكم الغاية أو لَمَسْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ لمس, what does it mean in this ayah? Ibn Mas'ud and Ibn Abbas had two different تفسير Ibn Mas'ud said, here لمس means touching a woman Ibn Mas'ud said that Abdullah ibn Abbas said it means sexual intercourse So that means that the woman, if you touch a woman, she'll break your وضوء According to Ibn Mas'ud's interpretation And according to Ibn Abbas, no it doesn't Only it has to be sexual intercourse with a woman Now, somebody takes the view of Ibn Mas'ud and someone takes the view of Ibn Abbas Of course, I'm of the view of Ibn Abbas And that's the view I'm going to push and that's the view I'm going to, you know But on the other hand, I won't say that the person who takes the view of Ibn Mas'ud Is misguided, is corrupted, he should be boycotted for that belief No, that's a خِلاء, that's a جتهاء دون سائخ It's a difference of opinion which is valid And it's present at the time of the Salaf And the Madhab of Ibn Mas'ud said this is what they took This is acceptable The other issue is, for example, do you put your knees down or do you put your hands down first When you're going towards the sujood That's another difference of opinion which is valid But we can't differ upon whether خمر is حلال or حرام Yeah, I see, because that difference hasn't occurred before us Exactly Okay, but at the same time, with your kind of view And particularly when it comes to dealing with innovators Don't you feel like you're restricting yourself to maybe three or four shuyukh in the world And you're being fanatical towards them Whoever they declare to be an innovator, you're with them No, that's not the case And there are people who are like that, I agree But I'm definitely not like that I actually believe that ulama of the sunnah are all over the world Some who I know and some I don't know And the ones that I know, I hope, are more than the ones I know And I actually believe that if a person, he bases his love and his hate His allegiance on individuals Then that person is actually an innovator himself And I'm going to read the statement of al-Imam Sheikh al-Islam ibn Taymiyyah Ibn Taymiyyah said فَمَنْ جَعَلَ شَخْصًا مِنَ الْأَصْخَاصِ Anyone who takes a particular person غَيْرَ رَسُولِ اللهِ Other than the Messenger ﷺ مَنْ أَحَبَّهُ Anyone who loves that person وَوَافَقُهُ And agrees with that person كان من أهل السنة He says, oh yeah, he's from Ahl al -Sunnah Why? Because he agrees with my sheikh Anyone who does that And says, you're Ahl al -Sunnah Because you agreed with our sheikh You agreed with our Imam Anyone who does that, Sheikh al-Islam ibn Taymiyyah said وَمَنْ خَالَفَ وَكَانَ مِنْهَا الْبِدْعَةِ وَالْفُرْقَةِ And anyone who opposes that Sheikh You say he's an innovator because you oppose the Sheikh وَمَنْ خَالَفَ وَكَانَ مِنْهَا الْبِدْعَةِ وَالْفُرْقَةِ That you're an innovator You're causing disunity to the Ummah Because you went against our Imam كَمَا يُوْجَدُ ذَلِكَ فِي الطَوَائِفِ As this is present in some deviated groups in the religion وَغَيْرِ ذَلِكَ وَغَيْرِ ذَلِكَ كَانَ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ وَالضَّلَالِ وَالتَّفَرَّقِ You are from the innovators now You are misguided Of course they are Anyone who bases love and hate On other than the Messenger ﷺ And that which the Ummah have unanimously agreed upon Anyone who bases love and hate On other than the Qur'an and the Sunnah And that which the Ummah have united upon Then he is from مِنْ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ وَالضَّلَالِ وَالفُرُقَةِ Okay وَالتَّفَرَّقِ He is a person of the Whether he screams I'm from the people of the Sunnah And I am from the Imams of the Sunnah And I'm upon Salafiyya And I'm this and that He can give himself those fancy names He is an innovator himself He is misguided himself And he is from أَهْلُ الفُرْقَةِ Those أَهْلُ التَّفَرَّقِ So that's something I really want people to understand There are scholars of the Sunnah in India There are scholars in the Sunnah in Europe There are scholars in the Sunnah in America Europe All of it I don't know I can't I cannot eliminate everything There could be scholars of the Sunnah in America There could be scholars in China There could be scholars in Australia There could be scholars of the Sunnah in When you call it Africa I can't speak And just because I don't know something As the Ulama they say Just because you're ignorant of something That doesn't mean it doesn't exist You're ignorant of something Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist So I'm saying that Alhamdulillah The people of the Sunnah are a lot They don't have to sign up They don't have to call a particular person They don't have to sign a letter of agreement All that they need to come with is They have to follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah And every interpretation they give for the Qur'an and the Sunnah Has to be based on what the Sahaba said Okay That's all it is Even if you don't call yourself for example Salafi You don't have to call yourself Salafi Wallahi you don't have to call yourself Salafi No, you don't have to call yourself Ahlus Sunnah if you want to Rather if you call yourself Salafi And you don't follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah And that which the Pious predecessors is upon And you give yourself a Salafi You're not Salafi The name doesn't change anything The scholars they say لا عبرة بالألفاظ والمباني There's no reality to wordings and terms إنما العبرة بالمعاني That which we look at is the meaning We look at your action We look at how do you follow the Salaf And your actions There are a group of people who say I'm Salafi right now And they shout that we're Salafi But for them the reality and the truth is They have love and they have hate And they have allegiance on a particular person Or two or three Sheikhs وهذا حق لا مرية فيه There's no debate about that That's the truth, that's the reality You know what you can do You can oppose if you want to The Salaf You can oppose the Salaf if you want to But if you agree with their Sheikh You're from the Ahl al-Sunnah You're from Fiqh to Nadia And you're Salafi That's the reality of some group of people out there This Sheikh is also one of your Sheikhs I mean I respect the Shuyukhs of Ahl al -Sunnah in general That doesn't mean I agree with everything a person says I don't believe every single person A Sheikh says that he's Haqq And he is I don't believe that I believe يُؤْخَذُ مِن قَوْلِهُ وَيُرَدُ I take some of his speech when it goes in accordance to the Kitab and the Sunnah And I reject it when it goes against the Kitab and the Sunnah I am not fanatic over any individual Okay JazakAllah khair And Ustadh Fakhman I've got one more really important question for you And I'm going to end with this bit Bismillah al -Kareem And that is What if you are a layman Muslim You're not knowledgeable You find someone in the Masjid giving duroods Giving lectures, giving lessons And you see them reading the Qur'an Praying at night You see them doing all of these good deeds He's got beautiful akhlaaq, good manners And he's calling people to what appears to you as a layman Muslim To the right version of Islam How can you determine whether your initial perception of them being upon the Sunnah is correct or not? What kind of steps can you take? What kind of guidelines can you use? You see the layman person who doesn't know Generally we can't hold him account because he's ignorant, right? He doesn't know And ignorance is a udhur shara'i Ignorance, generally speaking, is a shara'i excuse You are excused in the shari'a Ignorance is an excuse As Allah said Even from Tawheed You see that needs tafseel Whether you can be ignorant in Tawheed Okay That's another topic for another day That's another topic for another day So Allah Ta'ala says in the Qur'an وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُولَةًۭ We are not ones to punish them unless we send a message to them Meaning to convey to them Allah says in another ayah وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِي إِذْ قَالُوا مَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ عَلَىٰ بَشَرٍ مِنْ شَيْءٍ And Allah says in another ayah اللَّهُ يَصْطَفِي مِنَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ الرُّسُولَ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ Allah sends messengers for a reason To convey the message of Islam And to debunk and to speak against And dismantle the confusion and the misinterpretation of religion So ignorance is a hukm It's a rude excuse Generally, yes But here, if a person goes to a person who they rely on And they believe in عَمَّةُ النَّاسِ And they believe in that person Then as a poet said وَلَيْسَ فِي فَتْوَاهُ مُفْتِن مُتَّبِع مَا لَمْ يُضَفْ لِلدِّينِ الْعِلْمِ وَالْوَرَعِ The person, he is He goes to a person he sees religion in He sees a person who's, you know, staying away from Haram He sees a person who he believes is acting upon the religion That's all he saw And he asks a question I mean, Allah isn't going to punish him for that But what is needed to know is And this is an advice to all of the people out there Who are seeking knowledge, you want to learn It's generally good to go to a person of the sunnah And you ask them about who you should take knowledge from So you can test them Ask them You don't test the person that you're trying to take knowledge from But you just ask about him from other people Just like a sister, if she wanted to get married She asks about the brother But as a layman, like how can you determine whether The answer you get is a good answer or not I mean, you hear from the imams of your local masjid All of them are criticizing him They all say that he's misguided Okay, okay I mean, I want to mention a final story And I think this, inshallah ta'ala It should, inshallah ta'ala, bring matters to more clarity And I think it's important that we mention it Imam Ahmad, rahimahullah ta'ala I took a story from Tabakatul Hanabila by Abu Ya'la He mentioned that Imam Ahmad said to Ali ibn Abi Khalid He said about Al -Harith Al-Mahasibi He said about him لا تجالسوا, don't sit with him ولا تكلموا, don't talk to him So this is what Imam Ahmad said to him He said, don't sit with that man And don't even talk to him Talking about an innovator A man who went against I want to show you something Okay And then Imam Ahmad Also said to the neighbor And a man who's close to Ali ibn Abi Khalid The same thing And he argued with Imam Ahmad more than Ali ibn Abi Khalid He argued with him Regarding the issue of Al-Harith He said ذاك لا يعرف إلا من خبره عرفه ذاك جالسه المغازلي نعم مغازلي ويعقوب وفلان فأخرجهم إلى رأي جه من هلكوا بسببه Ahmad said, this man that you're asking me about, Al-Harith Many people have sat with him And he's taken them away from the Sunnah He's thrown them into misguidance He corrupted their belief So the man said to him يا أبا عبد الله This is what concerns me He said to Ahmad يروي الحديث The man is narrating hadiths ساكن خاشع The man is tranquil The man has humility when he talks Just like the people I'm telling you about Yeah Who are caught reading the Qur'an and doing good deeds He said يروي الحديث He narrates hadiths ساكن خاشع This man has khushu' in his prayer He's calm and he's collected He is the son of a ulema He is like a scholar ومن قصتي He went on explaining who this man is فغضب أبو عبد الله Ahmad got angry و جعل يقول He said لا يغرقك Don't let it deceive you خشوعه This man is khushu' و لينه And how gentle he is لا تغتر بتنكيس رأسه Don't let him looking down like this And humbling himself Don't let that fool you فإنه رجل صوي This man is an evil man ذاك لا يعرف إلا من قد خبره لا تكلم ولا كرامه No one knows this man Unless the person who sees him Who saw him for what he really is لا تكلم Don't talk to this man ولا كرامه له This man has no honor There's no good in him كل من حدث بحديث رسول الله Everyone who tells you the hadith of the Prophet ﷺ و كان مبتدعاً And he's an innovator تجلس إليه You're going to sit with him? Every person who tells you A hadith of the Prophet ﷺ And he's an innovator You're going to go And you're going to take a hadith from him? لا Ahmad said no ولا كرامه This man has no honor ولا نعم عين و جعل يقول ذاك ذاك And Ahmad kept going on And he was angry So just Because you saw a man praying And fasting And crying in the salah And whenever he mentions a hadith He can't hold himself That doesn't make it a criteria To go forward for marrying him Or taking knowledge from him Or taking knowledge from him And to be very frank and honest with you A sister wouldn't just take that as well For marriage And that's what really shocks me That if I told you He's dangerous Stay away from him You would take it And you'd be very But when it comes to This person is an innovator This person is going to corrupt your religion You are what? You're like nah And what is most important for you Your رأس المال Is your دين Your religion رأس المال meaning? Meaning your capital You cannot You can't lose the capital right In a business No You go bust Yeah so You're losing your دين And you're talking about other things It's sad nowadays that people will Really be careless about Whether a person is an innovator or not To the extent I'll tell you something There are people who now Don't even like using the word بدا Hate using that word بدا They hate using the word السنة They hate using the word التوحيد They've run away from it so much And there will come a time They don't want to even use the word الله Ustadh I think we're going to leave it there JazakAllah khair and for joining me on the hot seat JazakAllah May Allah bless you And may Allah bless you too I ask Allah for forgiveness and I repent to Him And I ask Allah for forgiveness and I repent to Him On the show You can also ask questions on the website To the speaker himself About these contemporary modern day issues Until next time في أمان الله والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
