Note: The following transcript was generated using AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Bismillahi wassalatu wassalamu ala rasoolillahi salallahu alayhi wasallam amma ba'da salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh Brothers and sisters, it gives me great pleasure to welcome you and to introduce you to a brand new show and a brand new podcast called The Hot Seat. To understand a little bit more about The Hot Seat, we first have to understand the context of the modern day world we find ourselves living in in the year 2019. It is a world in which perhaps, perhaps there are more doubts, misconceptions and misinterpretations that are thrown around about the religion of Islam than in any other period of time in the history of mankind.
The internet is the number one source used by people globally to acquire information on any topic and it is riddled and full of false notions and erroneous ideologies about the Deen of Allah. Our kids, ourselves are being exposed to this kind of information on a daily and if not daily then at the very least weekly basis and whether we know it or not, whether we choose to accept it or not, it is having an effect on ourselves, our hearts, our minds and ultimately our understanding of this beautiful religion. To further complicate the problem, many of us find ourselves living in western societies where the governments and the social norms and pressures are constantly trying to redefine what is good and what is bad, what is accepted and what is rejected, what Islam is and is allowed to be and what Islam is never allowed to be.
All of this, my brothers and sisters, ultimately leads to confusion, it leads to ignorance and if Allah permits, it can lead to misguidance. The Hot Seat has therefore been designed with the permission of Allah alone to counter these kind of modern day, contemporary issues head on by using the knowledge and the guidance of the Muslims of the past, the early generations of Muslims, the best of generations. There's not a single Muslim on the face of the planet today that would doubt the fact that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala completed our religion for us over 1400 years ago and that that completed, holistic, perfect religion is just as applicable now in the year 2019 as it was back then.
We truly do have classical solutions for contemporary problems. However, this isn't your normal, average Islamic lecture series. First of all, it's not a lecture.
It's a discussion between two parties, often opposing parties, in an attempt to reach the truth, bi'idhnillah. And secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it's a unique, one-of-its-kind, interactive podcast where you, from the comfort of your own home, have the opportunity to vote for and to choose the topic we'll be discussing on the show. You also have the chance to ask your own questions on these contemporary issues and to grill the speaker if you feel like he hasn't been grilled enough on the show itself.
I'll be releasing details of how you can do both of those things at the end of this episode. But for now, without any further ado, let's get into this episode of The Hot Seat. As-salāmu ʿalaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuhu wa-alaykum wa-salāmu wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuhu JazakAllahu khayran for joining me once again.
And we're here to discuss the second part of your journey to seeking Islamic knowledge. And I think where we left it before was when you were in Egypt. So after Egypt, where did you go next? Alhamdulillahi rabbil alameen, lahu alhamdul hasan wa thana'u aljameel, wa ashadu an la ilaha illa Allah, wahadahu la sharika lah, wa ashadu anna muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu amma ba'd.
After studying and learning in Egypt, I went to Saudi Arabia, and when I went to Saudi Arabia, my uncle lived there, Shaykh Musa Tahir Awais, who is the younger brother of Dr. Ahmad Tahir Awais. So I lived with him. And whilst I stayed with him, I studied with him the Kitab Nuhbatul Fikr Fi Mustalahi Ahlul Athar by Ibn Hajar.
And I really benefited a lot from him. He really understood the book very well. Okay.
Because that was his speciality. And he was in the same class as Dr. Abdullah Al-Bukhari. Oh, wow, okay.
So they were studying together in the Jamia. In Medina. In Medina, Jamia Islamia, Medina.
I also studied with him the Kitab on Ilmul Mawarith written by Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen in inheritance. Also, the Kitab Aqidatul Tahawiyah we studied. And we also did the Risalah Ibn Abi Zayd Al-Qayrawani as well.
I did a couple of Risalah for me. I benefited from him. And we also used to read in Ramadan together the Tafsir of Shaykh Abdur Rahman Nasir Al-Sa'di.
We used to read it together. We also used to go together, me and him, to the house of a Shaykh in Jeddah, who's one of the prominent Shaykh of our country. He lived in Jeddah at that time.
He recently died. Shaykh Abdur Rahman Nasir Al-Sa'di was considered to be one of the prominent Shaykhs, prominent scholars of our country, a master in Hadith, to be honest. I also used to go to the Durs of Shaykh Yahya Al-Mudarris.
Shaykh Yahya Al-Mudarris, as I mentioned, I took with him the Kitab Fathul Majeed, which was the Sharh of Kitab Al-Tawheed. And he used to read the Kitab Al-Minhaj, which is the Sharh of the Kitab Sahih Muslim Ibn Al-Hajjaj. Al-Imam Al-Nawi, he wrote a Kitab called Al-Minhaj, which he named it to explain Sahih Muslim.
There's a Kitab called Al-Minhaj in Fiqh Al-Shafi'i and there's a Kitab called Al-Minhaj, which is the Sharh of Sahih Muslims. So Shaykh Yahya Al-Mudarris used to teach. I used to sit in the Durs of Shaykh Abdul Rahman Al-Ajlan.
It was a Fiqh. He used to teach the Kitab Rawd Al-Murbi'ah. I came from the Kitab Zakat he was teaching to the end.
Okay. I benefited from him as well. And I came to know about him by going to one of the Durs of Shaykh Yahya Al-Mudarris.
And he said when he was asked a Fiqh question, he goes to the person, go to Shaykh Abdul Rahman Al-Ajlan. And I said, who's this Abdul Rahman Al-Ajlan? So then I went, I heard about him. And I was told that, you know, I overheard Shaykh say that.
So I went and SubhanAllah, I had the Durs, I listened. And SubhanAllah, his understanding of Fiqh was very powerful. After Taraweeh would finish, I would sit down and I'd listen to Shaykh Luhaydan.
Anyone who knows Shaykh Luhaydan would sit in the Haram after Taraweeh, after everything in Ramadan, he'd be given a seat right in front of the Ka'bah. Literally, on the white floor, he would sit there. And he would answer, he'd give a little 10, 15, 20 minutes lecture.
He'd choose a Mughdoor. And then he would answer people's questions. Sorry.
Also, the days that Shaykh Luhaydan wasn't doing the question and answers, Shaykh Sa'ad Nashidri had a Jalsa. So that's the first time I heard about Shaykh Sa'ad Nashidri. I overheard him on one of the radios, the speakers in the Haram, in Ramadan.
This man answering questions and his voice and the way he talks. So when I heard it, I listened. I sat down and I listened to him.
And I was amazed at the way he was answering it. And so then the second day when it came on again, I tried to look for him in the Haram. I don't know where he's located, but I can just hear his voice from the speaker.
So I saw him and my honor, my respect for him grew even more. Then I planned to meet the senior scholars. I thought, you know, it's time to meet Shaykh Fauzan.
Shaykh Fauzan came a couple of times to the Haram, so I saw him. But I wanted to benefit from him. So there was a Doura that was done in Ta'if.
They used to do a Doura in Ta'if. The Hayat-e Kibar-ul-Ridaman would come down and they would go through books. So I took with Shaykh Fauzan the Sharh-ul-Kitab-e-Adab-ul-Mashi by Shaykh Muhammad Abdul-Hab.
Kitab-ul-Tawheed he explained as well. The love I had for Shaykh Fauzan was the haybah and how honorable, the way he carried himself and the way he was. This is Shaykh Saleh al-Fauzan, right? Shaykh Saleh al-Fauzan, Kitab-ul-Tawheed he explained.
He explained a little Rasai-ul-Aqeedah. I also studied with him the Kitab-ul-Mumtah-ul-Adab by Abdul Ghawi al-Mardawi. But, you know, I came from Somalia where, you know, you explain the Hamish, the Hawashi, the footnotes, everything is explained.
Shaykh Fauzan just gives two or three pages is read on him and he just gives a little ta'alik. I see, okay, okay. So, I really missed those, you know, explanations, those detailed explanations that I was used to.
My teachers would, they would do i'rab of the Hamish and the footnotes. They would do i'rab of the chaptering and the name of the chaptering, you see. So, I was kind of used to that.
So, when I came to the Mamlukah and I saw scholars, you know, paragraphs are read, pages is read and then he just is quiet, he's listening and then he gives like, you know, two minutes he talks and then he carries on. It's a different style to what you're used to. But something else I benefited from that which was, subhanAllahi, that even though he wasn't saying much, he was saying much.
Oh, I see. The power in his words was very powerful. Yeah, it was small in words but it was a lot.
The fact that you could see in Fauzan's su'al and jawab and the questions and answers that he would give, but ma'adhalik he won't contradict himself because he doesn't speak too much. His kalam is mubabit, it's to the point. And he would answer the way he thought was necessary.
Like he wouldn't be controlled by the questioner. Sometimes you felt, you'd feel Shaykh Fauzan was not answering the question. But that's the wisdom you learn from the way he answers.
I remember one time the questioner asked him a question and then he answered it. Oh, he answered it. Yeah.
And the questioner felt that he didn't answer it so he asked again and he said, ajab to it. You know, I've answered it, just move on to the next question. Um, so I saw those shuyukhs and I benefited from them.
Even the mufti came down, he read some kutubs I listened to. And I always tried my best, you know, when I went to those durus, if they started to box out, finish with them. Until I came into contact with one Shaykh I truly love who helped me a lot, Shaykh Abdul Kareem Al-Khudair.
Okay. There's a story between me and Shaykh Abdul Kareem Al-Khudair. I had an issue in Saudi Arabia where I was in a particular city and I couldn't be relocated to another city.
I wanted my family to be taken with me. So I called Shaykh Abdul Kareem Al-Khudair and I told him, Shaykh, I'm having a slight issue and I want to leave this city and I want to go to this city. But I'm not able to go because they won't let my wife go.
So I'm having a slight issue. Can something be done, Shaykh? And I said to him, Shaykh, if I don't get what I need, it may cause me to go back to the UK. Right, okay.
So the Shaykh said to me, no, no, don't go to the Bilad Al-Kufra. Don't go to the land of the disbelievers. Let me see what I can do for you, Shaykh Abdul Kareem Al-Khudair.
Let me see what I can do for you. And he listened to my complaint for as long and I said, no problem, no problem, no problem. So Alhamdulillah, he gave my affairs to one of the people who work with him in his project right now.
It's called Ma'alim Al-Sunan that he has, Shaykh Abdul Kareem Al-Khudair. So he passed it over to that brother. His name's called Ibrahim Al-Fawzana, brother.
He was dealing with my situation, but it just amazed me the way he cared about me and he said to me, don't go back. Stay in the Malacca. This is your country.
I remember that. He said that to me. So this is your country.
He said to me, this is the country of every Muslim. It's the country of every Muslim. This is their country.
You stay here. Stay in Haramain. Stay, don't leave.
You can remember how many years roughly you were in Saudi Arabia? I can't remember exactly, but maybe three to four years if you add all of it together. And who from the Shuyukh had the biggest effect on you? Is it Shaykh Abdul Kareem Al-Khudair or is it someone else? Every Shaykh, I benefited something from him. Like every Shaykh, there was something I benefited from him.
Shaykh Fawzana, I benefited from his tabat, how firm he was. Like I saw his fatwas to be consistent, continuous. He was a man who didn't change over time.
And I realized why Allah honored him, subhanahu wa ta'ala, and gave him the station he gave him. Even though I personally saw people go into more explanations, more ta'liqat, more shuruh, more detailed things. And he wouldn't do that much.
But it was just the honor Allah gave him, subhanahu wa ta'ala. So it had to have been his tabat al-haq, how firm he was and how firm he is upon the truth. And it's true.
Anyone who listens to Shaykh Fawzana 10, 15, 20 years ago and listens to him today, time hasn't changed him. Situations haven't changed him. His fatwas are still the same.
He's a man of principles. Yeah. Hudaifah said, Don't change the colors and, you know, change from one situation to another situation.
And you keep changing all day. Every day your fatwas are just changing, changing, changing. And you call it, I'm experiencing.
No, you're not experiencing. It's not a sign of experience. It's actually, you're not grounded.
So you're jumping from one opinion to another opinion. The end of the athar is. He said, The religion of Allah is only one.
So every day you're upon a new religion. Either you're false before, you're false now, or you're going to be false in the future. We just keep changing.
Yeah. I mean, they use the argument that some people say that, you know, Imam al-Shafi'i changed his madhab. But he didn't change his masdar al-talaqi, for instance.
He only changed opinions here and there. You see, he changed opinions here and there. Some of the scholars actually said that when he changed from what he was upon, it was so little.
And it was fiqh issues that his observation changed. But we're finding people, subhanAllah, changing in their mu'taqad and in their manhaj. And aqeedah doesn't change.
You know, it doesn't change. So anyways, Sheikh Fauzan, what amazed me about him was how consistent and continuous he was in what he called to. He also amazed me with, you know, when you're seeking knowledge, you keep hearing the same evidence.
You think to yourself, I heard that one. I want to hear a new one. And it's a sad reality that happens to many students of knowledge.
May Allah protect us and give us sincerity. Ameen. So I found that Sheikh Fauzan would take those evidence and still use it.
Show you, subhanAllah, that it's not about new dalil or anything. He's been learning and teaching for decades. For decades.
Wow. So you'd sit in a lecture, and you'd be using all the evidences that you most likely could use yourself. You see, but in a way, sometimes it was very ajeeb, like amazing the way he'd use it.
Yeah, it was always amazing the way he'd put those orders in the order of the evidences, the way he would structure them out, the way he would use it for a particular issue that you'd think, hmm, I know that evidence, but I've never seen it in that light. So, yeah, the simplicity of his lectures. SubhanAllah.
I remember you said before as well, his Quran is very strong. Yeah, Sheikh Fauzan's Quran. Quran is one of the ulema who have the Quran.
It's strong. It's on his tongue. Whenever he needs it, he uses it.
So he amazed me when I saw him. Really, I was amazed by him. Another Sheikh I was amazed with that I saw was Abdul Kareem Sheikh Abdul Kareem al-Qudair, no doubt.
Sheikh Abdul Kareem al-Qudair, he does a dars, and in his dars, he's got volumes of books. And even one time I saw him teaching Kitab al-Muwafaqat by Imam al-Shati, and he had a manuscript. Original manuscript.
Wow. That was there on the table for him. And he's reading from it.
He's looking at that. He's looking at this. So I think it was 20 something years.
He was teaching Tafsir al-Qurtubi. Wow. And he said that three people were reading on him.
Two people died or something. In the third person. And he said, today, there's no one who never missed one class except the muezzin.
SubhanAllah. Yeah. So he says that he teaches a book, not for the purpose to finish it.
He just carries on whatever benefit you can get from it. And his lessons go on for long, long, long, long. So he amazed me in terms of his knowledge.
Amazed me. Wallahi haqiqatan, his ilm and his rusukh, and how grounded he is. He's a person you can listen to for hours, Sheikh Abdul Kareem al-Qudair.
And you will just get so much, so much khawa'it from him. The scholar that amazed me is Sheikh Abdul Razzaq al-Badr. Yeah.
Abdul Mohsen Abad's son, Sheikh Abdul Razzaq al-Badr amazed me. Truly amazed me. And what he amazed me with is the way he carries himself.
I've heard many people say this, actually. Sheikh Abdul Razzaq al-Badr has the samt al-alim. He has the samt.
The way he carries himself is the way an alim should carry himself. I was told by one brother, Sheikh Abdul Razzaq al-Badr, what made a change in his life and made him the way he is. And pushed him to become even, you know, he doesn't lose his composure.
Like, always consistent in the way he carries himself. I heard it was when he, because he did his majester, I think it was, I think it was majester. His master's.
Okay. He did it on the life of Abdul Rahman Nasir al-Sayyidi. So he has the biggest book on the life of Abdul Rahman Nasir al-Sayyidi.
And he mentions the life of this imam and then this impacted his life, I heard. Wow. And then when he wrote that book, it just made the Sheikh's life change.
That's what I heard. Some trustworthy brother told me that this changed his life. So whenever I saw Sheikh Abdul Razzaq al-Badr, it always amazed me the way he carried himself, the way he talked.
You know, recently he was meant to come to the UAE, remember? He was meant to come and visit us. And SubhanAllah, one brother contacted him and said to him, Sheikh, you know, why haven't you come to the UAE? Why have you missed the lecture that was organized for you? And he said, I couldn't come because of my mother. You see.
Allah says, And here it's just for the benefit? It's like Allah mentions his rights and then he mentions the rights of the parents. The man came to the Prophet and said, O Messenger of Allah, which actually is most beloved to Allah. And the Prophet said, And then the man said, Then the Prophet said, So Salah, again Allah's rights and then the obedience of the parents.
So it amazed me that at that age, you know, he's still obedient to his parents. And anyone who has a very close relationship with Sheikh Abdul Razzaq al-Badr knows, how obedient he is to his father. I saw one time with my eyes, I saw Sheikh Abdul Razzaq al-Badr, Sheikh Abdul Mohsen Abad, the grandfather of Sheikh Abdul Razzaq, I think it was, the grandson of Abdul Razzaq's grandson, four generations working together.
So Abdul Mohsen's father, Abdul Mohsen Abad himself, Sheikh Abdul Razzaq, Sheikh Abdul Razzaq's son and Abdul Razzaq's son's son. So five generations. Five generations, yeah.
Wow, subhanAllah. So five generations all together. And guess who was pushing the wheelchair of Sheikh Abdul Razzaq, Abdul Mohsen Abad? His son, Abdul Razzaq.
He's pushing it. So yeah, he amazed me, his composure, the way he was, the way he carried himself. It amazed me.
Another Sheikh that really amazed me about how he is, is Sheikh Muhammad Mukhtar al-Shanqirti as well. Sheikh Muhammad Mukhtar al-Shanqirti is an abid, waria, zahid, taqi, haqiqatan. Sheikh Muhammad Mukhtar al-Shanqirti, reliable brothers told me they saw him in hajj, helping the fuqra.
Wow. And he covered, you know. The poor people.
Yeah, yeah, hiding from the people. But you know, helping the poor people. And he's a member of the senior scholars.
He's a member of Sheikh Muhammad Mukhtar al-Shanqirti. Just the humility, subhanAllah. The humility of these people.
He has a kitab called Riyadh al-Saliheen, right? Yeah. So in the beginning, he mentions a couple of lines of poetry. He says, Allah has slaves, like unique slaves of his.
They're just not about the life that many people are about. They have private and hidden secrets in their lives, actions, righteous deeds. And every day they're working towards their personal perfection.
So these people amazed me, haqiqatan. All these ulama that I mentioned, each one affected my life in a way. Yeah.
Are you still in touch with any of them to this day? Yeah, I called him. I think this week I called him. So I ask him questions a lot.
I don't, I've never been close to him. But my personality was always, I just love to see the scholars and, you know, benefit from them in that way. Because I didn't want to take them away from what was beneficial for them and beneficial for the community.
So I never got in their way to, you know, some people, they try to get them Sheikh's number and they waste his time, to be honest, on unnecessary questions. Questions they can ask the students of their own city. It's okay.
What about Sheikh Fawzan? I've called Sheikh Fawzan a couple of times. But again, Sheikh Fawzan, he's a very strong, tough person. I remember one time.
Yeah, one time I went to his office in Riyadh and I came, I went to visit him. Sheikh Fawzan will discipline you. He will discipline you.
So during your studies in Saudi Arabia, it was really sitting at the feet of the scholars, as opposed to the kind of institutionalized studies you did in Egypt and Somalia, where you might have attended a madrasa. What kind of differences do you see between the two approaches? You see, when it comes to seeking knowledge, and I found this in the course of my studying, and I've spoken about this in more details in a lecture I did on practical steps of how to gain knowledge. If a student of knowledge comes with two things, he'll benefit.
And this is my own experience, what I learned, that, you know, came from me regretting it later, that I didn't do this. So it's things I benefited, maybe in my years of running around seeking knowledge. Alashaqa, I wasted some time.
There are people who come to you and they'll tell you, look, don't listen to this person, don't listen to this person, don't benefit from this sheikh. And so I missed out from benefiting from great scholars that could have benefited my life, could have taught me more. So anyways, what I learned is if a student of knowledge does two things, he'll benefit a lot.
Okay, the first thing I say is characteristics that a student of knowledge must and should adorn himself with. And these are like the following. Number one, he has to be sincere.
If you're embarking on this path of seeking knowledge, you have to be very sincere. You can't have, you know, another motive, another thought in your mind. It should be for the sake of Allah.
Number two, you have to be truthfully seeking knowledge. And the difference between sincerity and truthfulness is that sincerity, it means you're doing it for Allah alone. And truthfulness means that you're, whilst you're seeking knowledge, you're not associating knowledge with anything else.
You're focusing on it alone. Wholeheartedly. And I say you spend three things on knowledge.
You spend your money, you spend your nafs. You see, you know, you spend your time on it. If you give those three to it, all of it, it will give you something in return.
And those three things are your life, basically. Basically, yeah. The third thing is that the person has whatever it's been Allah gave you, the small knowledge that you've taken, implement it.
Make sure that you implement it. And I always give this example, which is if a mother's feeding a child and she puts food in the child's mouth, she won't put more food in his mouth unless he swallows what was already put in his mouth. So swallow it first.
And then, in other words, digest that, take that in. Same as with when it comes to knowledge. Allah will only give you what you've taken in.
What you've digested, what you've implemented in your life. The fourth one is the person has Himma Ali, high aspiration. Knowledge, you need to, you need to, you need to be a person who has high, high, high, high aspiration.
And you have to enjoy that pain that comes with it. Enjoy it. High aspiration.
Some people, they might say the sky is the limit. I say, no, the sky isn't even the limit. I've given this example quite a lot of times, and that is the reason why they call the lion the king of the jungle is because a lion doesn't eat dead corpse.
A lion loves to hunt. It's beneath him. Yeah, that's for hyenism, you know.
He's got a title called the king of the jungle. So he has to exert effort and hard work. That's what a lion is, right? So if you want to be high, you have to exert, you know, you have to believe that this is not something that you can just, high aspiration.
But the Prophet, peace be upon him, what did he tell us? He said, إذا سألتموا الله الجنة If you're going to ask Allah for Jannah, فسألوه الفردوس Ask Jannah for Firdous. Don't just say, Oh Allah, I want Jannah. Any part in Jannah is enough for me.
فَمَنْ زُحْزِحْ عَنِ النَّارِ وَأُدْخِلَ الْجَنَّةَ فَقَدْ فَأَزْ Anyone who's protected from the hellfire and he's been put in Jannah, then they found success. As long as I get my leg into Jannah, that's all I want. Don't say that.
You're a Muslim. You're a mu'min, Inshallah. Have high aspirations.
Say, Oh Allah, I want Jannah to Firdous. The Prophet is teaching his companions that. The next characteristics that a person should adorn himself with is, عَدَمُ الْاِسْتِعِجَالَ Don't be hasty.
See, knowledge doesn't come all at once. Don't be hasty. Take time.
This is like knowledge that was written for like 1000 something years. You can't take it all at once. وَلِذَلِكَ السَّلَفِ تَيْسَدُ مَنْ أَخَذَ الْعِلْمَ جُمْلًا Anyone who tries to take knowledge all at once.
فَأَتَتُوا جُمْلًا All of it will go at once. But the way you can attain knowledge is بِالْأَيَامِ وَالْلَّيَالِ Days and nights. So it's time it needs from you.
Don't try to do all at once. And last but not least مُلَازَمَةُ الْعُلَمَةِ To be with the people of knowledge. And even if you can't get the scholars, at least be with those who are higher than you.
Those who've preceded you in knowledge, preceded you in righteousness. Be in their company because they're going to put you up. They're going to encourage you.
They're going to advise you and they're going to push you forward. So you're going to scrape off. Their good habits are going to show on you and you're going to get from it.
You'll learn how to organize your time. You're going to learn how to carry yourself and etc. Those are the characteristics that I believe when you're seeking knowledge and you're embarking on this path, you need to have الإخلاص and the second one صدق في الطلب and the third one is and the fourth was and the fifth was and the sixth one was Those are the first thing I believe if you want to learn and you want to benefit from your time going to seek knowledge, to sit with the scholars, to go to another country.
Those are the six things that you need to adorn yourself with. That's what you need to come with from your country with a mindset that this is what you're going to you're going to do. Beautiful advice.
Now the second point is a methodology and this is where a lot of people struggle. I've come with all of these characters. I'm sincere.
I'm truthful. I'm with the scholars but I don't know what to study. What should I do? How should I do it? So the methodology is the second point and here the concept of what to study the methodology of how to be precise in knowledge how to really understand knowledge is five.
I'll break it into two. The first one is marahil stages that you need to go through. If you miss one stage or if you jump a stage or if you bring two stages into one it will show in your ability of comprehension and that is number one you have to go through the marahalat ta'asis you're grounding yourself first.
Learn the ground learn the foundations first. Don't talk about what's not your level. Stay in your lane as they say.
Cease. Ground yourself. Here at that level you're just going to learn everything from the foundation.
Give an example when you come to seek knowledge wallahi this is a statement my father said to me and I remember it. He said to me that when you're seeking knowledge you're like a house that has holes inside it. In order for the floor to be built first of all they have to what? They have to make sure that those holes are filled.
That's the foundation. So it won't show. Marahalat ta'asis won't show.
It won't come to the surface yet. So if you're expecting to be a scholar and teach at that moment or be a alim or people refer back to you then nothing's seen on you. There's nothing there.
You haven't got anything yet. It's just when you pass that level then things start emerging onto the surface. So marahalat ta'asis.
The second marahalat that the student goes through is called marahalat al-tadlil. Marahalat al-tadlil is where the person now asks for evidences looks for evidences tries to find out what the evidences are. You know he's got the foundations now it's more like what's the evidence because he can ask about evidence he can find out about evidence.
The third one is the stage where it's called ilm al-muqaran. Marahalat al-ilm al-muqaran. He compares ideas and views.
He's able to compare things. He can say look this view holds this. This is the evidence.
This group of scholars they say this and this is the evidence. Okay they can compare views. He's at that level now.
He's at that level but he still can't strengthen one opinion from them. He just he can compare opinions. Okay these are the differences between the opinions.
The fourth level is where it starts to become marahalat al-tahrir. He does tahrir of the mas'ana. He says this opinion is stronger than this opinion than this opinion.
Yeah he strengthens one opinion from the other. And the fifth and last stage is when the student actually he does marahalat al-takhassus. He specializes now.
This is my field of expertise. I'm good at this. But guess what? This is the problem I found.
Is that marahalat al-takhassus where you specialize is the stage where many people start to do that at an early stage. Yeah I see. At the beginning as in seeking knowledge you have to try to learn all the sciences.
And then after that when you've studied all of the sciences Allah is not going to make all the sciences the same. They don't all feel the same. There is going to be one science that sticks out for you.
A science that you appreciate. Science that you know a lot of the times the way to appreciate science is when it's more applicable in your life. That's how you feel that science is for you a lot of the times.
You take that science and you go forward in that science and you specialize in it. But that doesn't mean you're ignorant about all the other sciences. Those five levels are the tadaruj fil-talab the gradual stages of learning.
You see? Another point that I wanted to mention as a side point is that when it comes to these issues that are being looked at in issues of fiqh and stuff like that and ilm of the knowledge of the deen what I found when I went to my scholars and you know these halaqat that I went to the shuyukh that I saw I realized there are four levels that if a person has conversations between scholars private gatherings that you go to ulama in their lectures you can really enjoy it and it even opens the path of literally reading a book for hours on end and you literally enjoy it is when these four things are in place. Number one is if you have what is known as tasawwurul mas'alati tasawwuran sahihan you have a perception of this issue. I found over the years because we're students I remember sometimes a shaykh would go for a book with us and then when the teacher goes amongst ourselves the students will start having discussions over it and you know and then whatever we didn't understand would come to the shaykh and we ask him later but what I realized is and one of the things that my shaykh used to point out which is we're arguing but guess what we're not even talking about the same thing like if we sat down and said what do you mean by that? Okay, it's noted down and what do you mean by that? Okay, I'm talking about the same thing.
You know what I mean? A lot of khilafs will go out of the window. So the concept of perception of what you're talking about and what you're going to give a ruling to first of all is important. The scholars they say al-hukmu ala shay'i far'un an tasawwuri to place a ruling on something first of all perceive it correctly.
Then the second comes which is ma'arifatul hukmi just to know the ruling after I've perceived this issue what is the ruling for it? And of course the rulings are going to be one of five halal permissibility haram mubah makrooh masnoon you know those five levels. The third stage I say is ma'arifatul jami'i wal fawariq that you know the differences between like you can see the differences between different issues. For example if we're talking about a issue and you're talking about another issue we have to know that there are similarities in these issues and there are differences as well.
If there comes a difference it could change the whole ruling. Some people are like oh but it's similar but if it's similar it's a different discussion. Is it the same? No then of course we're going to have to put it aside for now.
And the fourth is ma'arifat al-maratib al-mas'alah—knowing the levels of all the issues: which is the strongest, which is the lowest, and which ones are high. I believed that when I got these four, I benefited greatly from reading, benefiting from the ulama, going to the halaqat, reading books, and having discussions with people. Amazing advice. Barakallahu fiqh. I just think that the last 10 to 15 minutes should be cut and made into a separate video. Jazakallah khairan.
Okay, so going through all that, how does it relate to the issue of sitting with the scholars versus institutionalized formal studying—the pros and cons of each?
When you sit with a scholar, it’s not just the information he gives you, it’s how he gives you the information. That is very important. It’s not just about the content, but how this information is conveyed to you. That is what you learn from the halaqat. The shaykh knows when to use a dalil (proof) and when not to, and you’ll learn that as well. As I mentioned before, Shaykh Salah al-Fawzan, you learn how to answer a question and how not to answer it. You see, you learn that from the shaykh.
Another thing you learn from the ulama is the concept of how they carry themselves—the way they answer questions, the way they assess how the question is asked, and the way they verify it. You learn about their humility even when a student corrects them on a matter. I remember one time in a halaqa, Shaykh Fawzan said something, and one of the students responded. The shaykh looked at him and said, “Jazakallah khairan,” and took it on board. I don’t know about you, but I learned a lot from that.
You realize that no matter how big or knowledgeable you are, you should remain humble. However, I wouldn’t agree with a brother correcting a shaykh like that in public, but the point is the humility on the shaykh’s side.
Another thing you learn from the mashayikh is, I remember one time I was with one of my mashayikh and I said, “Shaykh, inshallah I’m going to start teaching the books on aqeedah and inshallah, I’m going to teach Qawa’id al-Arba’ and then Thalathat al-Usul.” He said, “No, Thalathat al-Usul, then Qawa’id al-Arba’.” I asked, “What’s the difference? Qawa’id al-Arba’ is smaller.” He said, “Don’t change the methodology that the scholars set.” I was like, “Really? Does it matter?” He replied, “Yes, it does matter. Even the territory of the books and Qawa’id al-Arba’ is smaller. So, do this.”
So you learn all of that from them. You also learn a mas’alah (issue), that the way you understood it is not always the way it was meant by the author. I’ve had times when I misunderstood a mas’alah and asked my shaykh, and he would say, “That’s not what the shaykh means.” I’d say, “Really? How does he not mean that?” And he would explain it, and then I’d look at it and realize, he was right.
Now, when it comes to academic knowledge today, I’ll tell you something: these universities select from books. The curriculum they wrote is not the curriculum tested by the senior scholars. Remember, the manhajiyyah (methodology) that Shaykh Sam Tamir, Ibn al-Qayyim, and all these great scholars went through, wasn’t the academic way. They didn’t just pick a hundred hadith from Bukhari. Do you see my point? They studied Bukhari in its totality. They studied these books fully. That’s how it was done.
Over time, as the fitnah (trials) becomes more widespread, the knowledge also becomes diluted. It gets weaker and weaker. So what happens over time is that, because knowledge is being weakened, people come who can’t speak about the dalil (evidence) because they don’t even know it anymore. So much irrelevant information is put before them.
It’s good in the sense that these universities help you get your shahada (degree), and also help you benefit from the technology being used. They bring certain benefits, like in al-imad al-kulli (fully relying on this), but if you leave off the old way of studying with the ulama under their feet, it shows a lot of deficiencies in the student of knowledge.
Anyone who sticks to these university systems without going through the old way of studying—you can always tell from them. I remember a brother who graduated from the University of Medina with a PhD. Imagine this: a PhD in uloom al-Quran (sciences of the Quran). So I asked him one time, “How many times have you read Tafsir al-Mukathir?” He said, “I’ve never read it in my life.”
Wow, never read it? You’re a PhD student, and that’s your specialty? So that’s the problem. He read Ibn Kathir’s selections, but he read them as a reference. Do you see my point? He used it like a reference for whenever he needed a verse, but he had never actually studied Tafsir al-Mukathir thoroughly.
Another thing that destroys the students in these universities is a program called Shamila. I hate that program.
What is Shamila? It’s a program where you can research an issue by just typing in a hadith, an ayah, or a quote of a scholar, and it will show you every place it appears in his works. For example, if you search for something related to Ibn Taymiyyah, it will show you where the fatwa appears in his majmua (collected works), the volume, and everything.
I saw with this is number one, the student gets it fast and so he loses it fast. He doesn't remember it, so his whole research is what I found. SubhanAllah, that when I read a kitab like the Fatwa or a kitab like that, and for example, I'm looking for a masalah, a particular issue, I stumble over another issue that I once upon a time wanted to know because I'm reading the hard copy. And so sometimes what happens is I stop there and I write that point, and then I go back to what I was trying to do. So the fawa'i that you come across whilst you're looking for what you're looking for is amazing. Do you see my point?
Yeah, yeah, also I can tell you where I read this from my fatwa, what side it was on, because I looked at it from the book. So I'll say it's on the right side, in the middle. Do you get the hard copy? Because I looked at it from the book. So I'll say it's on the right side, in the middle. Do you see my point?
Yeah, so these things, when it came to students who are really— they have big books, they've written—but they're not grounded as you would think they are in the actual knowledge of the deen.
Sure, okay.
I know we can talk about your travels to seeking knowledge for a very, very long time, and I know we've only just scratched the surface. But something that is synonymous with traveling seeking knowledge is hardships that come with it. Have you experienced many hardships? Can you talk a bit about that and what helped you get through them?
One of the biggest things that you suffer from is finance, no doubt. If you don't have money as a student of knowledge, it's a problem. You know, this thing is money—if it's not there, it's a problem. You can't live with it and you can't live without it. You try to live with money, then it will eat you, and it will take you on, and you can't live without it. And one of the biggest problems that a student has is finance.
Okay, so of course, at a point in my life, my father—especially when I went to Saudi Arabia—he can't now provide for me anymore. So you're a big boy now, and I'll tell you a story of how it went. I called my father. I said, "Look, Dad, I have to go, I have to leave, and I'm going to definitely go to Saudi Arabia, and I'm going to seek knowledge." And my dad's one person, when it comes to the deen, no problem. But at this point, he wanted to train me. He wanted to strengthen me. He wanted me to do it for myself. So he said, "Work and make the money and get your flights." But he employed me, because my father had a shop at this time. Okay, so he employed me. I had a job, I worked for him for a while, and I got myself—I made enough to get myself a flight and to get there.
So you have to imagine, I'm in my teens. So I landed and I came to the Haram, I came to Jeddah. I landed, and when I landed, you know these people, because I came with an Umrah and I'm planning to stay here for long until I get kicked out, I'm planning to stay. So my father, he never called me, he never contacted me, nothing. He said, "Okay, you want to go? You want to do it? You want to seek knowledge? Go, go do it." He said, "We did it when we were." Because my dad graduated from the Jamiah, Jamiah Riyadh, right? Yeah, so he studied in Saudi Arabia. He knows how hard it is, the sun, the heat and you know, so he goes, "Go, go do it." So I went. I landed. I had one bag full of clothes and everything. So I came to the Haram, and the security guard goes, "No, you're not—you can't go in your luggage, your bag, luggage into the Haram. Keep it outside." I have no hotel. I have no hotel, nothing. So I went for another door, I tried the other door. I tried. I finally came into the Haram with my bag, my luggage bag. I don't know what to do. I don't know, like a suitcase, basically.
Yeah, my suitcase. Yeah. I don't know what to do. I'm expecting to stay in the Haram. No plan, nothing. I've got a little bit of money, you know, four or five hundred pounds, I think I've got. So anyways, my father—my dad never called me, I've got a little mobile phone. It's old phones, 3310 Nokia. So I came to the Haram, I slept. I was very tired, I slept. Good sleep, Allah. After I drank my Zamzam water, I slept very well. But I was scared somebody might take my bag or my clothing or my—so I kept everything close to me, so nobody steals my money, my passport, my anything. I was keeping it close to me, so I slept. I slept, I think, like that for two to three days. I stayed with Zamzam water. I was breaking my fast with dates, and one day a guy brought yogurt, I brought a yogurt, bread, cheese to the Haram. That was like a three-course meal for you. That was a three-course meal. I ate it with him. He called me. I did not hesitate, and I ate with him. Really filled me up.
And I saw a Somali man, I said, "Uncle, As-salamu alaykum." He said, "Alaykum as-salam." I said, "Uncle, do you know Uncle Kurshid Mosul Tahir Awais?" He goes, "What do you? Yeah, yeah, I know him. Yeah, so where?" He goes, "He comes to the Dars of Shaykh Yahya Al Mudarris, the Asr time, or Maghrib time." I said, "Okay, no problem. I'll go when he comes. I'll see that time." That waiting for him was the longest waiting in my life. I was so hungry. Then when I saw the Shaykh, I came, he was in the Dars, and I, Shaykh Yahya Al Mudarris, it's my first time, I'm going to see him. Yeah, so I stood on the side of Shaykh Yahya Al Mudarris, and I'm so hungry. Well, I haven't eaten. I'll do anything to have a bath or a shower. I'll do anything to sleep on a bed, and I'll do anything. I'll pay any money for somebody to feed me, give me food.
So I stood behind Shaykh Yahya Al Mudarris, and I waved to Shaykh Musa. I know him. So I waved. He looked at me. Everyone's looking at me. I just waved to the Shaykh. So the Shaykh stood up in the Dars, in the Dars. Wallahi, told me to come. I went, because I couldn't come in my bag, so I went to come. I'm tired. You couldn't go between the students. Anyways, I did. I went to the Shaykh. He said, "Assalamu Alaikum." I told him my story. He goes, "Okay, we're going to go to the house later after Taraweeh." Taraweeh, I can't wait, man. I want to sleep. I want to eat. I'm hungry. I want to shower. I can't wait for Taraweeh. I can't wait for any Salah. So he goes to me, I don't tell him. It's all in my head. He said, "Okay, no problem. I pray Taraweeh." The Shaykh is Khashir. Wallahi, I pray. He's crying. I'm not gonna lie. I was not feeling the whole Salah. Nothing. No Khushroor, nothing. I was hoping everything just goes by fast. Then I looked at the Shaykh's clothing. It's all running in my head. I said, "I don't think the Shaykh's got good food in his house, because he's with very simple clothes." His whole clothes cost like 10-15 pounds.
Wallahi, I'm not exaggerating, so I didn’t think he had any money. I didn’t think he was going to have anything. Then when he took me from the Haram to his house, it was a long, long route. Then he took me on top of a mountain, and we went down the mountain. And then he’s like, “Don’t worry, it’s around the corner.” And the corner turned out to be wild. So for me, it was like, and he took me to a very broken-down area. I was like, “Definitely, there’s no food here, there’s no shower here, even if you think there’s nothing here.” So I was like, "Inshallah, at least there's going to be a shower, because I know in Saudi Arabia they all have air conditioners." At least there's an air conditioner.
So Wallahi, he gave me nice food. I ate. That time was very hard for me, particularly that moment. Another time, when I was in Somalia, illness happened to me where I lost my hair. I was losing my hair, so it was becoming patches, my hair was becoming patches. And other stories, these are natural hardships that people inevitably will go through—experiences like this. And what gets you through them is really just remembering what your purpose is while you're doing this in the first place. Yeah, the aspiration I had at that time, I wish I had it today. I was so strong, really.
Yeah, Wallahi, I was so strong. Yeah, when I showered, I remember the Shaykh came and he said to me, “Hey, what did you come for?” I said, “Shaykh, I’m ready. You can teach me. I’m your student.” Wallahi, I said that to him. I remember I came out of the shower, my hair was wet, everything's just, you know, just wet. And I was like, “Shaykh, I came to learn. I want to learn.” And I said to him, “Shaykh, teach me anything. I’m your student. You train me.” So I lived with him, I stayed with him, I learned more than just knowledge from him. Yeah, simplicity, humbleness, a righteous man, very righteous man, amazing.
So I know you're relatively well-traveled then, so let's give some advice for someone who wants to travel abroad to seek knowledge. Which country would you recommend? You know, what are some of the good countries to travel to?
It depends on the student, right? If you want to— I mean, what I benefited from the scholars of Saudi Arabia is the way that they are respected. I always saw them to be respected more than any shuyukh I've ever met from my country. The shuyukh are like the rest of the people. They walk out with the people, they're in the bus with the people. He might bump into a sheikh, and he's just on a bus with the normal people. He finishes the dars, and people ask him questions, they just leave. So you don’t get that respect of the scholar concept from back home. Even in Egypt, they respect the sheikh, but there’s... Yeah, they're better. They're better. But in what I saw in Saudi, it was different. Utmost respect for the sheikh. No one questions the sheikh.
Like our shuyukh—they get, like, after the dars, the students argue with the sheikh. Our Somali shuyukh? Yeah, they argue with him. They question his rulings. There's a hardcore... He goes through scrutiny.
Really?
Yeah, Allah, Allah, he goes on the hot seat.
Yeah, yeah, he goes on the hot seat.
Yeah, so it’s his personality. We’re used to it. Like, they love it. Recently, my sheikh came, Shaykh Ahmed Mahmood, and he said something, and I said, “Okay.” And he said to me, “Why do you want to discuss it with me?” And then I said, “Shaykh, I don’t want to argue with you.” And then he said to me, “Argue with me all the time.” He said to me, he named one of the brothers who's a strong student of knowledge, and I said, “Well, Shaykh, it’s Shaykh.” He’s like, “No, how are you going to...?” So they’re used to that. They’re happy for that. They want you to—not just accept him because he said it—they want to, they like the word they use in Somali is that they want to, they want to melt your brain, right? That’s what they say, you know, to melt your brain, to think.
I want to say that the Sheikh said, “You know, anyone who says to you, ‘Sheikh, why?’ will never find success.” He said, “Don’t be like that. They train you to question them, which has a benefit to it, but it’s only good for the student who’s mannered, yes, for only the wise student. Not everybody should be given that chance. You know, if you open that door to everyone, then disrespect, and of course, lack of appreciation for the Sheikh will come.” So, you benefit different things from different countries. Yeah, I can’t say this country is better than that country because each country gives you something that the other country doesn’t.
Okay, I want to move to a few personal questions that will benefit the people, Inshallah. Which book have you benefited the most from in your studies, and why? One book, if you have to narrow it down. I know that’s a hard question, but one book, if you have to choose.
I don’t know if that’s an easy question; it’s a hard one. I know every book I read, I benefited something from it. Every good book, I benefited things from it. You know, you hear stories like Sheikh Ibn Baz used to go over Tafsir Ibn Kathir over and over again; that was just his book. Any kind of book like that, that you just really cling to.
What I’ve done is I’ve changed the method of how I deal with my books. Okay, yeah, I know I travel a lot. I’m not always in one place, and I don’t always have my library. So, one of the things I benefit from my Sheikh, especially Sheikh Ahmed Mahmood, is he said, “Every book you read, write your own content page for it and summarize that book.” I really benefited from that. Yeah, yeah. So, whenever I read a book, whether it’s volumes or whether it’s just one, I always try to make a content page for it. In other words, the content page is a summary of the book. It shows that you’ve understood the book because remember, the author didn’t write the content page—generally speaking, it’s the muhaqqiq (editor) who has done that. So when you come and write the content page, it shows that you’ve got an understanding that these couple of pages are talking about this topic and also to summarize the book. Yeah, and so the content page always allowed me to be able to go back to the book quickly.
Another thing I did with my books is, for example, if I’m teaching aqeedah (creed), I’ve studied, for example, Thalatat al-Usul (The Three Principles), then I studied Qawa’id al-Arba’ (The Four Principles), then I studied Kashf al-Shubuhat (The Removal of Doubts), and I studied Kitab al-Tawheed (The Book of Monotheism), and of course, before that, Al-Naqa’id al-Islam (The Articles of Islam). Then I came to Wasitiyya, then Hamawiyya, then Tadmuri, and then Tahawiyya. At this point, Aqeedat al-Tahawiyya is the one that’s going to have all of the explanation because it’s the last one for me. So, I’ll put all my footnotes, all my commentary, from the Thalatat al-Usul, which was the beginning, until the ending `Aqeedat al-Tahawiyya. The Sharh of Ibn Abu al-Izz al-Hanafi (The Commentary of Ibn Abu al-Izz al-Hanafi) has everything on there for me, so it’s got all of your things—all your footnotes, all your notes—in one place.
Let me divide the books into two: If I say Thalatat al-Usul, Kashf al-Shubuhat, and Kitab al-Tawheed, those are Tawheed (Monotheism) books, okay? And then there are the Aqeedah (creed) books, which are Wasitiyya, Hamawiyya, Tadmuriya, and then Tahawiyya—that’s Aqeedah. So, what I do is, for the books on Tawheed that I have, I take Fath al-Majeed (The Opening of the Majestic), which is the explanation of Kitab al-Tawheed, and I put all of the Tawheed I studied from every book onto Fath al-Majeed. Okay, so my Thalatat al-Usul, the Sharh (commentary) on there, Kashf al-Shubuhat, Nawaqid al-Islam (Nullifiers of Islam), Qawa’id al-Arba, you name it, all of them are on Fath al-Majeed for me, on the side, on the hawamish (margins), in the notebooks, everything. So whenever I want to teach Tawheed, I just have to take Fath al-Majeed, so I don’t need to take the rest.
For Aqeedah, I do Aqeedah Tahawiyya. I do that too. So, I studied Wasitiyya, Hamawiyya, Tadmuriya, and I put everything on the Aqeedah Tahawiyya. Now, the Sharh of Ibn Abu al-Izz al-Hanafi on the side, in the corner. So now, you ask me to teach, for example, Usul al-Sunnah by Imam Ahmad or Sarih al-Sunnah by Ibn al-Jarir al-Tabari or whichever Aqeedah book you tell me to teach, no problem. I just have to get my Sharh of `Aqeedah Tahawiyya, and I get all the explanation in there. I put it on the Sharh of the Kitab (book) Usul al-Sunnah by Imam Ahmad, Sarih al-Sunnah by Ibn al-Jarir al-Tabari, Sharh al-Sunnah by Imam al-Muzani, Wahakadah (and so on), and that’s how I do it.
Beautiful. So, I end up the same with Mustalah al-Hadith (The Terminology of Hadith). I studied Bayquniyah, I studied Nukhbat al-Fiqar, I studied Ikhtisar al-Ilm al-Hadith (Abridgement of the Science of Hadith), and then I studied Alfiyat al-Iraqi. Then, I place all of my Sharh on Fath al-Majeed. Sorry, sorry, the Sharh (commentary) of Shams al-Din al-Sakhawi, which is called Fath al-Mughith (The Opening of the Helper). I place everything on the Fath al-Mughith of Sakhawi—commentary, benefits, all of it on there. Everything’s in one place. So, I don’t have to carry Bayquniyah, Nukhbat al-Fiqar, Ikhtisar al-Ilm al-Hadith, and all of that. I just need to take my Fath al-Mughith.
So, I end up leaving my library with each science. I’ll do that with it, and then I’ll go with one bag with all of it, so I can travel the world and teach all different sciences—all from those books that I’ve done it with.
Amazing! One thing I know about you as well is that you're an avid reader. You love reading. It’s a passion of yours. You love reading 10 hours a day, and if I know, if it wasn’t for your other responsibilities, you’d love to read 16–18 hours a day. Talk to me about your progression in reading. Have you always been reading this many hours per day? How does it work?
No, I wasn’t a reader, to be honest. When I was young, I wasn’t even a reader at all. I never read anything. It wasn’t my hobby to read. But, you know, when you ground yourself, or when you learn the basic knowledge and you learn it in a systematic way, then when you read a book, you will be able to appreciate that book. A lot of the time, people you find who can’t carry on reading are people who are lacking in understanding the book. And if you do come across a couple of words that you don’t understand, you close the book and put it somewhere. Or, if that book doesn’t seem practical in your situation, if you don’t feel that this science is something you’re going to apply now in your life—like, for example, it’s fun out when you’re researching an issue that’s outstanding. You have an issue here, and you need to research it. Well, of course, you’re going to be more inclined to it. So, what I did was I tried to make every single thing applicable in my life, one way or another.
So, when I read books, this was the beginning of my reading. I’d always have, you know, discussions with brothers, and then I’d go and read out this whole topic. It started off like that, and now I read random stuff. After I read, I break my reading into two: systematic reading and haphazard reading.
So the one that’s systematic that I’m reading, I don’t change that for anything, but the ones that are haphazard are all based upon if anything pops up. In terms of the amount of time you dedicate per day to reading, what did it start at? I think 45 minutes, you said before?
Yeah, so I’d read 45 minutes, one hour maximum, minimum—sorry, maximum. And it grew until it became hours. Now, I think it’s a beautiful example. The reason why I want to talk about it is a practical example of tataaruj (gradual progression), how it slowly grows. And I think you believe—I believe you told me before—that you almost hit a limit where you thought you were never going to pass this limit. Can you remember the amount?
When I reached about two to three hours, I always thought, “Come on, you can’t do more than that because you get tired, you get distracted.” But I’ve seen 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14 hours.
And how long was that process? From 45 minutes to where you are now—10, 12, 14 hours a day?
Yeah, I think I would be lying if I gave you an exact time. I don’t know, really, but we’re not talking weeks or months, right? We’re talking years.
Yeah, yeah. So definitely, slow progression is definitely the way, instead of, you know, some people think that it’s either all or nothing—you jump in at the deep end instead of just progressing slowly and adding onto your schedule.
Okay, another personal question. Do you want all of your children to become students of knowledge?
I plan, for now—and Allah is the best of planners—for them to memorize the Quran, all of them.
And for them to memorize the books that I’ve written for them, the program that I’ve put together for them. My children, all of them, will memorize the Qurans that I wrote for them, the program I’ve put for them to memorize, and I really want them to do that before they reach the age of 15, 16.
Okay, once my children reach that age and they’ve memorized the Quran and they’ve memorized these books—Umdatul Hikam, Bulughul Maram, and these books like Riyadul Saliheen and whatnot, and these Aqeedah books—then they have the choice. Once they’ve done that, they have the choice to either pursue this path of being students of knowledge, becoming Ulama (scholars), Duaatun ila Allah Azza wa Jalla (callers to Allah, Mighty and Majestic), or whether they want to go to academic sciences. And in the academic science that they go for, they could do their Dawah.
Sheikh Ahmed Tahir Awais, he has a brother called Sheikh Ubaid. I call him Sheikh Ubaid because he was my Quran teacher. He taught me Quran as well. He is a pediatrician—like, he specializes in children. I remember, SubhanAllah (Glory be to Allah), in the hospital, when people came to him, yeah, Somalis back home, they wear Ta'weez (amulets) they call it, right? What he would do is, SubhanAllah, in his own profession, he would cut that off their hands. So, when they came to him and they said, “Oh, my child’s sick,” he would say, “The first sickness your child is going through is that they’re wearing their Ta'weez. Take it off.” Amazing.
And so, he would cut the Ta'weez off, and he’d give Tawheed (monotheism) and Aqeedah lessons to them. And this is Sheikh Ahmed Tahir’s youngest brother, or one of the youngest brothers of his. So, he’s a doctor, he studied his profession. He’s a 95 doctor—like, yeah, 95?
95, yeah.
So, he studied in Italy, he’s a professional doctor, a professional doctor with a PhD in medicine. MashaAllah (as Allah wills), he was my Quran teacher at one time. SubhanAllah.
So the point I’m coming to is, how he benefits and calls to Tawheed from his field. So, if my children want to do that and they want to pursue it from that perspective, I’m more than willing to help them, aid them, and support them in it, InshaAllah (if Allah wills). But the point you’re making is that he couldn’t have done that if he didn’t have the foundational knowledge.
Exactly, so we have chances as parents, when our children are young, we can set the path for them. We can set that road for them. So, before they reach 20, we can fill them with that information and that knowledge and the implementation and the importance of the Deen (religion) of Allah Azza wa Jalla. And so, when they reach the time where they think they have a choice, we say, “Okay, what’s your choice now?” But guess what? You’ve kind of guided them to it. So, even then, you still have a say in their future plans. Because, SubhanAllah, you’ve taught them, you’ve educated them, you’ve indirectly guided them towards something.
That’s why I say to parents when they bring their children to me at the age of 20, 18, or 17, and they say, “Look, advise my son,” I really turn to the parent and I say, “What were you doing before 18?” The reason I say this to them is because I say, “Allah gave us a chance, man. Allah doesn’t oppress His creation. He gave us all a chance to benefit from our children when they’re very young, you know, and to learn the Deen. Our children—all of us—our children, at the age of 15, to the age of 15, they’re willing to listen to us. Everything we say, they trust us, they believe in us, they actually see us as their superheroes, you know? They look up to us. I remember, when I used to go to school, one of the things I would say to my friends is, ‘My dad’s stronger than your dad,’ because they believe in their parents. But after 15, they see you for who you really are. The reality becomes clear to them, and they choose to drift away from you.
So, what I’m trying to say is, with Allah’s aid and support, I’ll take benefit from my children whilst I have that chance, that opportunity Allah has given me. I won’t wait for the time when they can do what they want.
You mentioned earlier that when you’re studying the different Islamic sciences, Allah doesn’t make them all equal for you. Sometimes you prefer one over another. Do you have a favorite science?
Yeah, I’m inclined to Hadith; that’s the science I love the most. Again, love is different from knowing it, but I love that science the most and I appreciate that science the most.
Okay, I want to end with a few final pieces of advice. So, what do you think is the most beneficial thing for a student of knowledge starting on his journey to specialize in? To specialize? Yeah, for the current problems we’re facing today, is it ruqya? Is it marriage services? Is it just being an all-rounder? Is it just teaching books?
This question reminds me of a question that many people ask. You’ve probably heard people ask this question: When did you make the decision to become a shaykh? Some people look at the concept of becoming a shaykh as though it’s a career you choose. No. I mean, the beginning of talab al-‘ilm (seeking knowledge), you don’t choose to seek knowledge to specialize in. You learn for your own self. The first reason why you seek knowledge, your first intent for seeking knowledge, is for yourself. You want to get yourself out of the darkness.
And then after that, you learn for the people. The concept of specializing comes naturally. I wouldn’t say, "Seek knowledge so you can specialize in this science." It just happens that you tend to spend more time in a science and then you become—basically—they coin that term for it, which is that you specialize in it. But this idea that, "I’m not going to study any other science. I’m learning so I can specialize in this science," I think it’s a newly invented mindset.
But of course, once you study all the Islamic sciences, there’s always going to be one that sticks out for you, one that you appreciate. And that one, I can’t speak for everybody. Everyone has a science they might appreciate. But if I look at the situation in the UK, what science is very needed that can help the Muslim community there? I would say fiqh (jurisprudence). Fiqh is greatly needed. Of course, a person, after they’ve grounded their aqeedah (creed) and their belief system, fiqh is greatly needed. A person who is grounded in fiqh because of the contemporary issues that keep coming up in the UK. We need people who are grounded in fiqh.
The second science I would truly say, having seen over the years students of knowledge who graduated from many different universities, is the science I felt they lack a lot in: the Arabic language. The Arabic language is very weak among the students of knowledge. Those are the two sciences I feel are very important in the UK.
Excellent, they’re very pertinent.
What do you consider to be the biggest obstacle in today’s world for someone who wants to seek knowledge?
Gadgets, telephones, social media. Very true. The internet, they’re some of the biggest distractions that can busy a student of knowledge. It destroys a person, it really does. I’ve seen it, and it can kill you. However much you try to avoid and stay away from it, social media can destroy you.
One of the things I chose not to do is read books from the laptop or even my iPad or even my mobile phone because of that. When you’re reading, you get rid of all of your gadgets. Just use a hard copy, read from the book.
Yeah, I think that’s the key. If the Ummah spent as much time on the phone as they would on the Qur'an, we would have many Qur'an Hafadh (memorizers of the Qur’an).
Very true, very true.
Okay, last couple of questions I have for you: If you were to give your former self, when you first started on the journey to seek knowledge, one piece of advice, what would it be?
Yeah, definitely listen to my parents’ advice more.
Yeah?
Yeah, definitely. They advised me a lot on places I should have gone and places I shouldn’t have gone, things I did, and the way I should have done it. If I had followed more of my dad’s advice and not tried it for myself, because I wanted trial and testing, I would have avoided a lot of hardship.
One example I give you: I wanted to go to Damaj. I planned to go to Damaj. I raised and saved money, and when I saved money, I got ready. I told my dad, "I’m going to Damaj. I’m ready, dad. This is 10 years ago."
So I said, "Dad, I’m going to Damaj, this is it. I’ve got ready, I’ve got my money, I saved money. My plan was to go to Damaj, buy a house there, and study."
So my father said, "Don’t go, don’t go, don’t go. Damaj is not safe." This was way before the issues of the Houthis and whatnot. It was way before all of that. None of that problem was happening.
My father said, "Don’t go." Sheikh Ahmad Tahir always told my dad, "Don’t go." He said, "Don’t go."
So I didn’t listen. I said, "Dad, I have to go. This is the deen of Allah. I want to learn. I’m hungry."
So I went to the airport. A brother was with me—may Allah bless him and grant him Jannah (paradise)—for those who know him. He had a history of some crimes and things that happened before in his life. So we went to the airport, and me—never having been stopped at the airport before—I’ve never been stopped, Alhamdulillah. Wherever I traveled, I’ve never been stopped. I’ve never had a criminal record, nothing. I’ve never been stopped at the airport.
So, I got to the airport, and somebody was waiting for me at the airport. I’m like, "Whoa!" And so I realized it was based on association because I was with that other brother.
What they did was, the money I had saved to go to Damaj, they seized the money from me. Alhamdulillah, they gave it back to me after that, but the point is, just listen to your parents, man.
It saves you a lot of trouble. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn’t have had my money taken from me. And Alhamdulillah, Sheikh Ahmad Tahir said to me, "Don’t worry, I’ll make du’a (supplication) for you."
I called him and said, "Sheikh, I’m really sorry. I should have listened to you. I shouldn’t have gone." His reason for advising me not to go to Damaj was that, "You're going to learn nothing but insults."
Really?
Yes, he said there’s a lot of slandering and name-calling. He believed that was all I would learn there. But at the time, I thought, "No, Sheikh, I’m going to learn the Sunnah. I’m going to learn from the scholars." But he was adamant. "No, you’re going to learn insults and name-calling." So, I didn’t listen to him, but Alhamdulillah, I managed to meet Sheikh Al-Hujuri Hafidhullah. When I saw him, I was truly amazed. He’s a noble man—may Allah honor him. He’s a great Sheikh, a person I truly respected. The time I spent with him left me at a loss for words. I was mesmerized by what I saw from him. May Allah shower His mercy upon him and resurrect him with the prophets and the righteous.
He’s a man who was very kind and generous. When we went to visit him, he offered us juice. I was sitting next to him, and he didn’t even know me. He poured the drink for us, taking the time to make sure we were all taken care of. He was kind, and he took time to advise us. He’s an amazing person—an amazing Sheikh, a noble and honorable man. May Allah shower His mercy upon him.
Final question: Do you have any regrets, and if so, what are they?
Yes, I have many regrets in my life.
Really?
Yes, definitely. One of the greatest regrets I have is coming forward in my life at a very young age to teach. I was very young when I started teaching. I lacked knowledge and experience, both. There were big mistakes I made in my life over the course of my dawah (invitation to Islam). There are things I ask Allah to forgive me for—my shortcomings, my mistakes, the things I said that I shouldn’t have said, and the things I did that I shouldn’t have done. I regret the ways I spoke to people that I shouldn’t have. Regrets don’t end. If you live in this world, you’re always going to be regretful. But one thing I’ve learned is that if you’re always surrounded by righteous and noble people, InshaAllah, they’ll always tell you the truth.
Don’t be around people who just say naam, naam, naam (yes, yes, yes) to everything you do. Be around people who will tell you the truth, who will not sugarcoat it, and will give you constructive criticism in the way you need to hear it. You’ll benefit from their critiques more than from those who are closest to you and always praise you.
That’s powerful.
I definitely regret saying that the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) praised the Khawarij. I definitely regret saying that. May Allah forgive me for that. The Prophet (Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) did not praise the Khawarij, and I made a mistake by saying otherwise. So, there are many things I regret. But I’ve also benefited from many people around me, even from my opponents and adversaries. I’m always, always, always willing to hear my mistakes, my shortcomings, my faults.
So, is that something you still do to this day? As soon as you finish a class, you ask the students what they think and what you could have done better?
Yes, definitely. I always ask. Even with this podcast, I’m going to ask the brothers who watch it, "What do you think? What should I have said? What should I not have said?" The Prophet (Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) said that a brother to his brother is like a mirror. The mirror doesn’t lie. It tells you exactly what it sees. It doesn’t sugarcoat it; it shows you the faults on your face that need to be cleaned.
So, that’s how a Muslim should be to you: telling you the truth, informing you of your shortcomings. What happens a lot in the dawah scene is that you end up surrounded by people who just like you, appreciate you, and praise you. The ones who will criticize you get pushed further away. One of the things I always advise the brothers in the dawah scene is not to think that people are jealous of you because, in that case, you’re assuming there’s something about you for others to be jealous of. There’s nothing about you for others to be jealous of.
Instead, change the narrative: think, "What did I do wrong for people to think this way of me?" If you correct that, you’ll get better and progress in a better way. I realize that the reason people who don’t like me or don’t appreciate me feel that way is because my mistakes have probably been exposed to them. Maybe they’ve seen a sin of mine, and that’s why they feel the way they do. I truly believe that’s the case. Every day, you just become more conscious of yourself, your actions, and you don’t blame others for it.
Ustadh Rahman, Wallahi, JazakAllah Khairan for doing this two-part series. I really, really appreciate it. May Allah continue to aid you in your future studies and teaching.
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